451C 2nd Side CQ

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  • tmaged
    Owner/Service Manager

    Site Contributor
    1,000+ Posts
    • Oct 2008
    • 1844

    #1

    451C 2nd Side CQ

    My best tech & I are at a loss. The duplexed copies are horrible on the 2nd side only. This goes for duplexed prints and on color also. We replaced drum, black DV, fusing rollers which were all pretty close to being due. We went back with memory, disconnected all options etc. There seems to be a very slight fuzziness on the 1st side & very pronounced on the 2nd side as well a light. Transfer roller in the door looks good. We tried different cassettes. It'll run single sided fine all day but the duplex is bad. Any ideas welcomed!
    Hope that helps !
    -Tony
    www.dtios.com
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  • tsbservice
    Field tech

    Site Contributor
    5,000+ Posts
    • May 2007
    • 7837

    #2
    We had some results with adjusting of 2nd transfer roller bias.
    A tree is known by its fruit, a man by his deeds. A good deed is never lost, he who sows courtesy, reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love.
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    • tmaged
      Owner/Service Manager

      Site Contributor
      1,000+ Posts
      • Oct 2008
      • 1844

      #3
      We tried the bias for the 2nd transfer, 2nd side. Made no difference.

      I tried attaching samples but the download fails. Anyone having trouble with that?
      Hope that helps !
      -Tony
      www.dtios.com
      Become a fan on Facebook

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      • Baphomet
        Copier Technician

        250+ Posts
        • Aug 2008
        • 293

        #4
        Having not seen the samples but just going by what your description supplies I have an idea. This will be easy to check, so just remember it in case you get some other responses on the subject as well.

        If the 2nd transfer door is not closing properly you will get this type of symptom. Try making a few copies while pressing the duplexer tightly against the copier and see if the copies come out good that way. If so ... well, you get the idea. I have had to make some latching adjustment for this type of CQ issue before. Worth a try. If that turns out not to be the problem, then I would still suspect it is a second transfer issue of some sort.

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        • tmaged
          Owner/Service Manager

          Site Contributor
          1,000+ Posts
          • Oct 2008
          • 1844

          #5
          Try making a few copies while pressing the duplexer tightly against the copier and see if the copies come out good that way.
          We tried that. I thought maybe the door was broken & the paper was entering the resist section at an odd angle or something from the duplex. Everything looked good that I could see.

          I can't figure out why I can't post the sample??? arghhhh
          Hope that helps !
          -Tony
          www.dtios.com
          Become a fan on Facebook

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          • tmaged
            Owner/Service Manager

            Site Contributor
            1,000+ Posts
            • Oct 2008
            • 1844

            #6
            Samples




            Hope that helps !
            -Tony
            www.dtios.com
            Become a fan on Facebook

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            • Mr Spock
              Vulcan Inventor of Death

              1,000+ Posts
              • Aug 2006
              • 2064

              #7
              Try this:
              run a duplex job and when the second side is pulled into the unit open the front cover and look at the transfer belt and drum. See if the image on either is light.
              If it is then check the primary charge corona, and the first transfer roller in the tbu unit. Also check the long screws in the tbu and loosen the front one about two full turns and check again. Check/replace the tbu cleaning blade clutch.

              If the image on both the drum and tbu belt are good then I would replace the 2nd transfer roller even if it looks good.
              And Star Trek was just a tv show...yeah right!

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              • Baphomet
                Copier Technician

                250+ Posts
                • Aug 2008
                • 293

                #8
                At the risk of sounding overly simple, have you tried a different supply of paper? I have not seen this effect on just one side of a duplex copy before. But the only real difference between the the first and second side in a duplex cycle is the fact that the paper has already passed through the fuser on the second side. The effect of heat and pressure can be different from one stock of paper to the other, as you know. I am at a loss and am just throwing ideas out there. Good samples by the way.

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                • tmaged
                  Owner/Service Manager

                  Site Contributor
                  1,000+ Posts
                  • Oct 2008
                  • 1844

                  #9
                  Yep, we tried a new ream of paper. Usually the first side is light if paper is moist. We are going to take some good 28# just to be sure.
                  We did stop the machine & check first & second side images on the belt, but it's hard to tell. Mybe it'll be easier on the drum.
                  Thanks for the help guys.
                  Hope that helps !
                  -Tony
                  www.dtios.com
                  Become a fan on Facebook

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                  • ToshibaTech
                    Senior Tech

                    500+ Posts
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 580

                    #10
                    You could also try running one sided then the second side from the cassette. If you get the same symptom then I would def. suspect the paper. If you are only getting it when duplexing I would suspect second transfer. Check the facing roller for buildup/crud. To make it easier to see on the belt just run a single color sky shot (make sure you leave a good lead void though
                    I will not give you service manuals or firmware.

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                    • Sbarro
                      Trusted Tech

                      100+ Posts
                      • Feb 2008
                      • 176

                      #11
                      I had this. My client have 281c and do a lot of color works at duplex and 200g+ paper.
                      It's all about 2nd Transfer roller. It may looks good but we had to change'em after 50k (it should be 200k ). You can try add some voltage to 2nd Transfer in duplex mode (second page) but it can be to late for that .You have to change it (roller) to a new one. When you will do this all settings of BIAS of 2nd transfer roller change to deafult (if you had changed them).
                      Give couters of the machine or full PM page.
                      Hope this helps.
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