e Studio 255/355/455, the whole series

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  • blackcat4866
    Master Of The Obvious

    Site Contributor
    10,000+ Posts
    • Jul 2007
    • 22927

    #1

    e Studio 255/355/455, the whole series

    I've got perhaps four machines doing this, maybe more. The machine makes a crease in the crossfeed direction, approximately 35mm from the trail edge of whatever size paper it happens on. It varies a little from 20 to 45mm from the trailing edge. And it's intermittent. I've run as many as 1000 pages without a crease. Then made a copy of my invoice and it's creased.

    It's a timing issue of a sort. I've figured out that at the time of the event the leading edge of the paper is at the registration roller, and the crease exactly lines up with the vertical path roller. The first machine I worked on with this problem seemed to primarily affect the KD-1026 LCF (LT), but since then, I've seen the exact same issue from tray #1 (LT-R) or (LT).

    Here's the list of things I've done to address it:
    Disassembled, cleaned, oiled, and examined every component from the LCF up to and including the registration roller. Cleaned all the rubber. Replaced all the clutches, registration clutch 3 times, all photosensors. Checked spring return on the flags. Smoothed out rough spots in the guides. Widened the slot in the vertical path guide, so as to clear the sensor flag.
    With the imaging unit removed I checked that the paper is firmly gripped by the registration rollers. The vertical path rollers are all spring loaded and spin smoothly. I tried different types of paper, and different orientations. It seems to happen primarily on LT, but other sizes and orientations also. Probably because the majority of the paper is LT.
    I can be fairly certain that the crease is happening pre-registration. Of the samples, maybe 1 in 100 of the samples is a full Z-fold with no image inside the fold.
    I've tried adjusting the loop anywhere from 5 to 40. I can make the paper skew consistently with values less than 17. I can make it Z-fold consistently with values above 28. I get the best results and minimal creasing with a value of 19, but definitely not fixed.
    The doors all close correctly and latch at both the front and back.

    Has anybody come across this particular issue? =^..^=
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=
  • ivovb
    Senior Tech

    500+ Posts
    • Apr 2008
    • 695

    #2
    Re: e Studio 255/355/455, the whole series

    One more thing to do - get really big hammer and ...

    Seriously. I cant understand - is there a paper jam or paper comes out with that crease (Z-fold)? Z-fold itself reminds me about similar problem and the culprit was one of the transport clutches - high and low speed 6LH53742000 (cant remember which one exactly). These two clutches are the same so You can simply swap them and see if the problem changes...

    BR
    I'll never ask if I didn't check user manual, service manual, parts list, BSI/TNI/TAD... web, existing threads.

    Comment

    • blackcat4866
      Master Of The Obvious

      Site Contributor
      10,000+ Posts
      • Jul 2007
      • 22927

      #3
      Re: e Studio 255/355/455, the whole series

      Few jams, just creasing the trailing edge. And since the paper isn't flat there, sometimes you'll notice poor toner transfer in the crease.

      And yes, I'm ready for that big hammer. I don't generally run down any specific group of machines ... but I wouldn't mind if I never saw another 255 series machine. =^..^=
      If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
      1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
      2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
      3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
      4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
      5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

      blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

      Comment

      • mckinley
        Chief Twiddler

        100+ Posts
        • Dec 2006
        • 150

        #4
        Re: e Studio 255/355/455, the whole series

        Hi Blackcat

        There is a BSI from the early days of the Loire (e255 - 455) on zfold

        I have regular support calls to do where i find machines that still haven't had the codes set.

        You need to change the alignment codes in 05 mode
        zfold.jpg
        I've attached a screen shot of the codes you need to set, be aware the codes are different for the 255/305 than for the 355/455.

        Regards.
        Happiness Is The Road.

        Comment

        • blackcat4866
          Master Of The Obvious

          Site Contributor
          10,000+ Posts
          • Jul 2007
          • 22927

          #5
          Re: e Studio 255/355/455, the whole series

          Thanks mckinley. I'll be seeing one of those machines today. I have experimented willy-nilly with the loop settings, but I'll use the list as is. =^..^=
          If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
          1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
          2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
          3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
          4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
          5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

          blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

          Comment

          • mckinley
            Chief Twiddler

            100+ Posts
            • Dec 2006
            • 150

            #6
            Re: e Studio 255/355/455, the whole series

            no problem, the other method of fixing it, which is a bit unorthodox is to disconnect the lower transport clutch (bottom left of rear of machine) & leave it unplugged, that also stops zfolds on these.

            Regards.
            Happiness Is The Road.

            Comment

            • Mad_Coachman
              Technician

              Site Contributor
              50+ Posts
              • Jan 2009
              • 99

              #7
              Re: e Studio 255/355/455, the whole series

              Originally posted by blackcat4866
              Thanks mckinley. I'll be seeing one of those machines today. I have experimented willy-nilly with the loop settings, but I'll use the list as is. =^..^=
              I have had good luck with setting 08-457 to 0. I had replaced the lower transport clutches and still had folding so I set the LCF timing to 0 and all is good!!

              Comment

              • blackcat4866
                Master Of The Obvious

                Site Contributor
                10,000+ Posts
                • Jul 2007
                • 22927

                #8
                Re: e Studio 255/355/455, the whole series

                Originally posted by mckinley
                no problem, the other method of fixing it, which is a bit unorthodox is to disconnect the lower transport clutch (bottom left of rear of machine) & leave it unplugged, that also stops zfolds on these.

                Regards.
                Now that's interesting! It makes me think that there's a timing problem in the firmware, or maybe the jam timing in just too imprecise. I'll give it a try next visit. =^..^=
                If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                Comment

                • mckinley
                  Chief Twiddler

                  100+ Posts
                  • Dec 2006
                  • 150

                  #9
                  Re: e Studio 255/355/455, the whole series

                  One thing to watch for is, the main drive starts to bind (the bronze bushings get gunged up) & can give a similar fault as well as other jamming issues due to the drag on the feed system. The drum shaft pin also breaks due to the binding of the main drive (there's a modded shaft & pin), if you have a broken pin (the normal pin is a split pin, which is fixed solid in the drum shaft), you will experience jams at the drum area.

                  Regards.
                  Happiness Is The Road.

                  Comment

                  • michaelc
                    Field Tech

                    Site Contributor
                    500+ Posts
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 590

                    #10
                    Re: e Studio 255/355/455, the whole series

                    On that range of machine we used to do the lower guides/sensor actuators and a some guides on the door every so often. The actuators can look ok til you line them up to a new one. If you need I can probable dig out the part numbers for you.
                    It didn't say that I couldn't do it in the manual.

                    Comment

                    • CCS
                      Trusted Tech

                      Site Contributor
                      250+ Posts
                      • Feb 2008
                      • 266

                      #11
                      Re: e Studio 255/355/455, the whole series

                      Have all these issues been dealt with by Toshiba on the e456 ?

                      Comment

                      • mckinley
                        Chief Twiddler

                        100+ Posts
                        • Dec 2006
                        • 150

                        #12
                        Re: e Studio 255/355/455, the whole series

                        Timing codes were sorted on later e355/455 range.
                        Registration actuator wear still happens on earlier e356SE / e456SE, but the actuators have been modified & the plastic now contains glass to prevent wear when doing a high volume using & poorer grade of paper (newer e456SE etc... have the modded actuators)

                        Regards.
                        Happiness Is The Road.

                        Comment

                        • blackcat4866
                          Master Of The Obvious

                          Site Contributor
                          10,000+ Posts
                          • Jul 2007
                          • 22927

                          #13
                          Re: e Studio 255/355/455, the whole series

                          The new loop values solved the Z-fold issue on the 455SE I worked on today. I also had a bonus jamming issue E3E0, E3D0, E3C0, only from the KD-1026. After some investigation I concluded that the LCF was intermittently doublefeeding a second sheet overlapping the first. The first page imaged, and fed through, but the second was left remaining at the registration roller, looking like any ordinary jam. I was prepared to try looser separation pressure (different spring), but in the end the torque limiter solved the problem. My fingers could not tell the difference, but then perhaps fingers don't qualify as a precision torque measuring device.

                          As a side issue I noticed that the lower bypass guide was warped, touching the inner guide. The action of paper pushing past has created an oval wear mark you can see in the picture. This lower guide is very flexible, and the spring pressure of the bypass lift springs and the bypass separation pad spring helps to it warp more. The scrap part I found was a lot straighter. On the original part I didn't have much success with reversing the warp with heat. Mostly I just overheated/deformed the mylar beyond recognition.

                          Still waiting for the picture. I'll add it later. =^..^=
                          If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                          1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                          2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                          3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                          4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                          5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                          blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                          Comment

                          • mckinley
                            Chief Twiddler

                            100+ Posts
                            • Dec 2006
                            • 150

                            #14
                            Re: e Studio 255/355/455, the whole series

                            The bent guide with the white block on it causes quite a lot of E010 jams.

                            I cut about 3 turns off the heavy duty spring for bypass separation, then I file the screw holes so they are slightly wider (front to back direction), there is also a hole for a peg which needs widening if you do this method.

                            Once the above has been done if you push down on the middle of the guide as you tighten the screws, the guide usually flattens down.

                            The white block also gets a groove worn into it at the lead edge which forms a lip, the paper then hits that lip & jams / skews, if this happens it can usually be smoothed down i find with some scotchbrite or fine sandpaper.

                            There is also a guide behind the lower jam release door of the machine (the one directly below the ADU/bypass) which has an actuator on it. That actuator wears, the guide wears & also there is a white plastic block which is on the inside of that guide (it pushes on the metal shaft of the lower transport rollers), a groove wears into that block & it allows the rollers to be pushed backwards very slightly & causes E200 type jams.

                            Regards.
                            Happiness Is The Road.

                            Comment

                            • blackcat4866
                              Master Of The Obvious

                              Site Contributor
                              10,000+ Posts
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 22927

                              #15
                              Re: e Studio 255/355/455, the whole series

                              You are just a font of good information! I can imagine exactly what you mean.

                              Overall, I haven't had much luck with the heat/reforming method. The thinner parts melt beyond recognition, and certain types of plastic would prefer to burst into flames before they become flexible. That's usually a bad sign when your paper guide bursts into flames.

                              Thanks for all the good information.

                              Loire lower bypass guide.JPG
                              If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                              1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                              2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                              3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                              4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                              5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                              blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                              Comment

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