T2500 "printhead replacement not complete"

[Massimo Italy]

Re: T2500 "printhead replacement not complete"

the amount of ink is calculated with consumption.
when you mount a new cartridge the chip is at 100% then the capacity drops with consumption, there is no detection of the actual amount of ink present in the cartridge.
by filling the head, the plotter knows that the expected consumption is X and deducts it from the capacity of the cartridge.
therefore it seems that since there is more ink than the signaled something is wrong in the path between the cartridge and the head.

have update the firmware?

check the warning code 93 exactly.

[pbrooks259]

Re: T2500 "printhead replacement not complete"

Perhaps I should suck via needle and syringe a good amount of ink through the magenta ink tube in hopes of purging some obstruction--or if continued to be obstructed ultimately replace tubes. I have never had an obstructed tube before, well, maybe once. ....again, I have never seen any 93.xx.xx errors in system warnings, only 27.14 (Initially I saw 27.14 several times about a dozen times in system warnings; and now it appears about 2 dozen times the longer I work on this.) but I assume that is because the printhead is not firing ink, not properly replaced yet (I suppose the drop detector could be bad).

I have updated FW.

I am tentatively thinking: Something is up with the C, PK, G, M primer channel. But C seems to be getting to the nozzles but not the others on same side as the C nozzles. I THINK Y & MK are getting to the nozzles. ....again I THINK the G or PK printhead ink compartment/tank is not getting filled up; it is empty--it's the only one I can seem to see from the outside of the printhead. Is it possible that the Cyan, PK, G, Mag primer only initially has enough power to move they Cyan but NOT PK, G, and Magenta?

Could a failing Cyan, PK, G, Mag primer cause the Mag ink level to be misrepresented?--the printer telling itself that it thinks the primer is moving a certain amount of Mag ink but it is not? Simply thinking out loud.

Oops! For 93.xx.xx I have to download that, right? So I need to do that and check out 93 warning codes. I assumed came up in system warnings, but don't think so. Again, I assume something is up with a primer, but I don't really know.

Thanks very much!

[Massimo Italy]

Re: T2500 "printhead replacement not complete"

sorry, i understood you had codes 93.
but they were introduced later with an update, maybe the previous version was very old?

from the manual...
For Printers after May 2014 (firmware MRY_02_00_05.6 and later)
In then firmware of those printers, new error codes have been included to simplify diagnosticability of
PHA replacement root cause: Filling SE codes (looking at those SE in the service plot avoids the need to
visually check the ink tubes).


with those cartridges I do not think you will be able to do the primer test, let alone the filling of the tubes (60ml for color).

[pbrooks259]

Re: T2500 "printhead replacement not complete"

Well, in "all pages" I see no 93 system warnings. This machine is dated 8/25/14, after May 2014--the previous FW was MRY_06_00_06.1. Initially again I did see about 1/4" and 1/8" stretches of air in Y & M tubes respectively right before the printhead. But I have purged that air with needle and syringe.

The left (as you face the front of the printer) set of nozzles are Y and MK right?, at least that--I assume 3 colors on one side and 3 colors on the other, but I am not certain.

I THINK this has to do with the Cyan, Magenta, Gray, and Photo Black primer. Do you agree? However, I do not understand the presence of Cyan but NOT as best as I can tell Magenta, Gray, and Photo Black (but maybe it primed cyan and then subsequently failed for the remaining 3 colors). I THINK I see Yellow and Matte Black at the left (as you face the front of the printer) set of nozzles--yellow and matte black have a separate primer.

I do not understand the underestimating of Magenta at 32ml (25%) whereas Yellow and Cyan are 54% and 55%. But Magenta cartridge weighs more than either Y & C. As you say, Maybe it is due to an obstruction in the Magenta ink tube.

Again could a malfunctioning primer cause an overestimation of Magenta ink usage? ....it is more than the reported 25% full. Just thinking that maybe the primer is working to fill the printhead, and maybe the printer thinks the primer is working so it is recording each attempt to fill the printhead with Magenta as Magenta used, so I have a Magenta ink cartridge showing about 25% when in reality it is about 60% plus or minus.

I am tempted to: order a service station (not necessarily, 8yo machine with 6 PHs) and a Cyan, Magenta, Gray, and Photo Black primer--well, I think you order both as a set of primers. What do you think?

Thanks a heap!

[Massimo Italy]

Re: T2500 "printhead replacement not complete"

I was thinking...
you have never personally performed the filling of the printhead is it correct?
if so to see what happens when the procedure starts you have to wait at least for the new magenta cartridge.
however we have already noticed this anomaly on this cartridge and failed the drop detector test.
have you tried to run other tests?
at this point not knowing exactly what is wrong, you could do all the tests related to the printer part.
axis test, carriage test, ink delivery system, primer motor, etc. to see what works instead

the service station would not be bad to replace it anyway but we don't know if it will solve the problem.

you said it passed the test, didn't you both? service station and priming motor?

it is possible that you will have to replace all the ink cartridges for the tests, you could buy a compatible set to save money, later eventually replace with originals if you prefer.

do you have the old previous print heads?
have you checked and cleaned the printhead contacts?

this drop detector mounting in these machine, maybe you can detach for test if have one of these, or order it separately as by the time the service station is working.

this machine has 2 ink channels, c / m / y right and b / mb / pb left, if i am not mistaken, so if one pump fails, all 3 colors of that side would be missing.
but if the pumps are connected differently it could explain the fact that 3 colors c / y / b (or mb / ph) are seen from the print head.
you should make sure how these pipes are connected

[pbrooks259]

Re: T2500 "printhead replacement not complete"

Thanks Massimo. Well, I just rechecked the pressure with finger on lower primer nozzle? And it seems noticeably lower pressure than top one and seems to struggle to get pressure up. I ASSUME that is the problem—inadequate pressure with that primer. I hope that is the Cyan, Mag, PK, & G primer. Well, I think the lower nozzle is for Yellow & MK primer since it seems to go to the Y & MK side of the printhead, unless they crossover in the printhead. (I would feel better if the lower one went to the Cyan, Mag, PK, & G primer as those last 3 colors appear to be missing at the printhead nozzles. But maybe it crosses over but I doubt it.) Well, anyway, it seems there is a problem with the primer assembly. What do you think? ….lower one seems to give intermittent bursts of pressure that are released due to some pressure sensor or something; upper does not seem to do that. It just gives intermittent bursts of pressure. But lower feels like less pressure than upper.

Honestly, it's hard to tell which has more or less pressure. The lower one does seem to relieve pressure after a moment due to possibly reaching the threshold set in a pressure sensor, but not sure of this. ....it builds up pressure and then "click" the pressure seems to be relieved. This does not happen at the upper nozzle.


Can I reuse this "new" printhead that NEVER completely filled? Or am I going to have to get another "new" printhead? Plus, what else? I would not be surprised if I have to get another "new" printhead. At least this present "new" printhead is I think under warranty and I got the invoice from previous owner just in case.


I have been unable to calibrate the drop detector because I have no working printhead. At least I think this is right.


Yes, I have never tried to initialize printhead replacement because of lack of new Magenta ink—I THINK it arrives today via Pony Express—I’m gonna tip that scrawny kid; maybe I’ll adopt him. I have tried to get a jump on the “real” problem, which there seems to be, in case the new Magenta ink cartridge does not address the problem. I think this is more than an inadequate Magenta ink level problem.

I have run these tests and passed: service station-1^st part passed (top one, I forget what stated) & as above just did primer test again and the lower primer pressure seems very low, inadequate; I would guess that is the problem I am having—need primer assy. Replacement, I assume; IDS-all passed; scan axis-passed; ECM-passed.


Previous owner is sending me old printhead that stated “replace” initially I think. I cleaned the contacts however with IPA alcohol, probably should have used water.

I wonder whether a malfunctioning primer can cause an incorrect logging of the amount of Magenta ink.

Pics? attached of previous techs work on T2500 back in April and May.


Thanks for ALL input!

[Massimo Italy]

Re: T2500 "printhead replacement not complete"

I think you have found the problem.
from what was reported by the previous interventions they have replaced the carriage board without solution.
in the photo of the printhead on the nozzle side I see 3 colors, I don't understand why you say that only cyan and yellow are present
almost certainly the tubes are crossed, I advise you not to try to refill the print head, you will almost certainly fail and throw more ink
the most logical step is to replace the primer pumps, and then do the test and observe the differences.

if there are any changes, i would try to refill the printhead.

if the printhead has not been damaged I think it will work, and maybe the previous one too.

remember that with those cartridges you only have one attempt to fill the printhead.

[pbrooks259]

Re: T2500 "printhead replacement not complete"

Thanks very much, Massimo. I have ordered a primer assembly today. And got the 130ml Magenta ink today but have not tried it and will not try it until I believe all will work including the "new" primer assembly. And have ordered just in case 130ml MK ink today (the present MK is 63ml). Otherwise supposedly per the printer, presently I have: PK 119ml, G 119ml, MK 63ml, Cyan 70ml, Mag 32ml (but I think it is a lot more), Y 73ml.

Again, I think when the printer was trying to prime Magenta but the primer was failing it deemed that with every priming attempt that Magenta ink had flowed to the printhead but it did not, so the Magenta was marked as only having 32ml although it has a lot more ink than that. Do you think this is possible?

And I think for the Service Station, it is about $300. I think I will try to disassemble it and clean it and reassemble although a messy job. The motor could fail subsequently but I will take my chances. ....maybe I will spring for a new one, not sure.

Do you think this might address the problem?

Thanks again.

[pbrooks259]

Re: T2500 "printhead replacement not complete"

Can I install a good clean used service station? I'm not sure it would not be rejected--throw up an error because used. I probably can.

[Kiran Otter]

Re: T2500 "printhead replacement not complete"

Of course. There's nothing to tell the printer it's either new or used.

Kiran

[pbrooks259]

Re: T2500 "printhead replacement not complete"

I am still wondering about the carriage pca; however, the carriage pca per tech notes was replaced back in April. I cannot make heads or tails about my light pattern compared to the table Kiran posted.

I get again L to R as I face the front of the printer: solid orange, solid orange, slow or normal flashing orange (I can't tell if slow or normal), fast flashing red.

I think the way I am seeing the LEDs is 180 degrees from that posted pic of the carriage pca. I have not torn into the carriage nor do I plan to, not right now.

Can anyone shed any light on what my carriage pca LED pattern means? Again, I cannot relate it to the posted carriage pca pic. That is probably the only table available pertaining to the carriage pca. I THINK if it were OK, it would show L to R: solid orange, solid orange, solid orange, solid red, but heck I don't know.

The only one that seems to fit to me is 3rd from bottom of the table, Red DS1-??, Orange DS2-Slow Blinking, Orange DS3-??, Orange DS4-ON: FPGA out of reset, HCl clock OK, HCl not initialized. And I do not exactly know what all this means except maybe FPGA needs? reset and HCl needs? initialized???? But I do not have a working printhead yet for what that is worth, if anything.


I got a new primer assembly. Getting ready to install it and see what it does. I will test it 1st and see how it differs from the old one. I have new magenta ink. The others appear to be full enough to do a printhead fill. I tried the old bad? printhead; it simply comes up "replace printhead". It appears to have been sufficiently filled back whenever. I have my doubts whether the "new" printhead that never filled (partially filled) will continue to be filled. I'll give it a try.

[Massimo Italy]

Re: T2500 "printhead replacement not complete"

it seems a puzzle to me to understand the meaning of those combinations .. I wouldn't worry at the moment, since the board has already been replaced
start replacing the pumps, and see the difference with the test
probably the old print head was marked as exhausted, who knows if it can be reset

good luck!

[pbrooks259]

Re: T2500 "printhead replacement not complete"

Thanks. I will try it all today. BTW, IDS tests all are OK as I have stated earlier. Although I again even at present see tiny stretches of air 1/8" to 1/4" long of cyan and yellow here and there--indicates a leaky tubes assembly to me. I will purge those lines a bit with a needle and syringe but not too much. Not sure how consequential that much air is--could maybe accumulate in the printhead and trash it at some point as far as I know. NOTE: unless you have a really short syringe, you ideally need to bend a needle to get access to the carriage end of the ink tubes. But The tubes assembly comes up only 7% used--guess was replaced not too long ago or maybe only the life cycles was reset to zero. Magenta is still a puzzle to me showing 20-25% but is probably at least 50-60% full. I will try to purge that line more. Thinking it could be blocked maybe but I think that is a rare event. Again I think it is showing 25% full because the printer determined magenta should have flowed to the printhead but it did not, it remained in the magenta cartridge, but I'm not sure about this.

[Kiran Otter]

Re: T2500 "printhead replacement not complete"

If you have an ink tube blocked by something, that would be the first time I've ever seen such a thing. It just doesn't happen. That magenta cartridge that feels full but says it has x% left; throw it away or only use it to prime tubes with a syringe. Obviously the chip is not in sync with the amount of ink. And everything you described sounds like the printer THINKS it's used magenta ink but it hasn't been actually pumped out of the cartridge.

I sent you an email regarding this issue but the crux of it is; if you have firmware 06 or above, there is an option in the service utilities to do an incremental purge. Pin 5494 is needed to access it. Do NOT use purge tubes option. This MAY help get the printhead primed and working, but it is not going to be recovered if it has already been rejected by the printer (so the manual says.) Not sure how you know if it has or hasn't.

Kiran

[pbrooks259]

Re: T2500 "printhead replacement not complete"

After all that--prime tubes (get any visible air out), replace magenta ink cart, replace primer assy., I got "replace printhead" for what is a replacement new printhead that never got filled with ink. I assume that means I gotta replace it but it should be under warranty. I will try some other things. FWIW, I did not do the "incremental purge".