Does anyone know how the Z3200 tells how much ink is in the cartridge? I wish HP would start doing a "theory of operation" in their manuals again. I have a customer who says they replaced the ink cartridges, and the printer still lists the cartridges as empty. But I can't figure out how the printer decides whether or not there is ink in the cartridges.
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The greatest enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Stephen Hawking -
Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty
Was intresting to know the anwser to your question also. did some searches and a few seem to suggest that there is a chip inside the ink cartridges that records the number of drop the nozzles fire and the ink controller does calculations as to percentages remaining. This makes sense to me, but not sure if it is correct.
If the above is correct, then is the cartridge oem or refilled . The machine may not recognize the ink levels of some refills as i understand from some of the blogs i read about this.THE ONLY THING FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING..........edmund burkeComment
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Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty
I used to have HP Officejet Pro inkjets which use the same sort of cartridge and ink system.
The chip is only used to estimate how much ink is left, there is a separate way it determines when the last drop was pulled out of the cartridge. The printer knows the cartridge is empty when the black rubber bulb under the cartridge doesn't re-inflate and stay inflated after letting it go and pressing it in again, so check that the bulb under the cartridge isn't deflated (meaning it's either empty or defective) or easy to push in.
The printer pumps ink by forcing a plastic piece to "pump" that black bulb, by pressing it in it forces ink out of the cartridge and into the printer's ink tubes, by letting it go it re-inflates by sucking ink from inside the cartridge. When it detects the bulb hasn't re-inflated, it means the cartridge is empty and no ink is left to re-inflate it and it will say the cartridge is empty.
So the defect is either in the cartridge or the sensor that detects that the bulb is inflated or deflated.
Edit: I just thought of another potentially more serious problem that would cause this. If the ink tube for that particular color has a leak or is disconnected, the black rubber bulb will always deflate as there will be no back pressure to prevent the bulb from immediately deflating, this means the ink pump will try several times to pressurize the ink before assuming it's empty, but if there is a leak that means ink is being pumped in significant quantities somewhere inside the printer. If the bulb seems fine on the cartridge, it's either a bad sensor or an ink leak inside the printer.Comment
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Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty
Subaro is correct. The printer just does the math, starting with a certain amount of ink, minus how much it's spit (either onto paper or spittoon.) If you took a new cartridge and stabbed it and let all the ink drain out, and put it in the printer, it would still read full.
I have to disagree with aabl a bit; that black 'boot' on the bottom of the cartridge is used to pump air into the ink cartridge. The air compresses the bag of ink inside, forcing the ink out into the printer. The printer doesn't use this to detect the amount of ink left. This is evident with 3rd party refillable inks where there is no boot, and the ink is just fed by gravity (which is a horrible, horrible idea.) The T, Z, 500/800 printers use this sort of cartridge. The 1050C, 5000/5500 used an air pump to create pressure in the ink cartridges.
KiranComment
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Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty
And if you have a new ink cartridge that reads empty, just return it to where you bought it as defective. It happens, unfortunately. It's just the chip got fried or scrambled.
KiranComment
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Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty
Thanks for all the responses everyone.Comment
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Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty
The black bulb does not pump air into the cartridge, it directly pumps the ink out of the cartridge (the ink is inside a hermetically sealed bag inside the cartridge casing, when the cartridge is empty the bag is completely deflated, it also doesn't pump air around the bag as the casing is not hermetically sealed, by opening the casing you can clearly see the black bulb fills with and pumps ink, not air). There are 2 one way valves in the cartridge, one prevents ink from flowing from the black bulb back into the ink bag in the cartridge, and the other prevents ink from flowing from the printer back into the black bulb. So when the printer presses against the bulb, ink has no choice but to go into the printer tubes, and when the printer released the black bulb, it has no choice but to refill itself with ink from the ink bag.
It's true the printer doesn't and can't use the black bulb to tell the ink level, but it does use it to determine between some ink being left and no ink at all remaining as the bulb collapses when the cartridge is empty due to there being no ink left to re-inflate the bulb.
I'm not familiar with any inkjet that uses an air pump, but I know without a doubt that those with the black rubber bulb under the cartridges pump ink, not air, as I had many HP inkjets with that technology and I modified the cartridges so that it would pump ink directly from 1 liter ink bottles I had next to the printer with tiny tubes going to each cartridge. This allowed me to print full color pages for something like $0.002 per page (that's not a typo, it's 0.2 cents), a cost per page I will likely never see again as they no longer make letter sized printers with these ink pumps.Comment
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Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty
Well aab1.. I stand corrected! You're absolutely correct. Apparently I just assumed it worked like the 1050c/5x00 did. But it's right in the service manual.
Makes sense too, now that I really think about it. The bongo pumps would have to pump a lot more to create any sort of pressure.
I attached the page from the service manual if anyone's curious.
KiranComment
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Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty
But this is different on the 5000? I've pulled ink cartridges out of the 5000 and seen them bloated, due to air pressure inside. I've assumed this is how the ink is pumped into the printheads.Comment
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Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty
This is a good learning experience for ink levels on these design jets. Kiran posted a page with infomation about how ink is pumped from the cartrigde to the printheads and all credit to aab1 for his thorough description of the procedure beforehand. I downloaded the service manual and was looking into it a bit and saw the below about ink levels. that is could be -/+ 25% rate. just something to note.
page 56 of sm
5 The front panel displays information on the selected Ink Cartridge.
The information displayed is:
�� The model of the Ink Cartridge (No.10 for Black (500 and 800
Series), No.82 for Black (510 Series), and No.82 for the Colors is
recommended).
�� Status of the Ink Cartridge.
�� The warranty expiration date of the Ink Cartridge.
�� The Serial Number of the Ink Cartridge.
�� The amount of ink remaining in the Ink cartridge (the error of the
ink level can be as much as + or - 25% according to the
specifications of the Printer).THE ONLY THING FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING..........edmund burkeComment
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Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty
The customer originally called, and when I quoted my labor price, he was gonna try to get it himself and call me back if he needed me. I think he was just actually looking for some free advice (which I generally give, but in this case I didn't know what to tell him without looking at it). Apparently, he got it working because he never called back.
But I'm back to the original question: what tells the printer, "hey, I'm out of ink."
How does it know that this black bulb doesn't inflate?Comment
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Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty
Yes, the 1050C and 5x00 have an APS that pumps air into the cartridge. The swelling actually keeps someone from (easily) removing the ink cartridge while it's under pressure. If you're working on the printer and run into a scenario where you need to remove the cartridges but they're under pressure, disconnect the air line running to the ISS.. this will relieve the pressure.
Sometimes the cartridges will be somewhat swollen, even when no pressure is present.. I guess from the plastic taking on the shape from being inflated.
KiranComment
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Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty
The printer knows it's out of ink by just doing the math. If it started with 69ml.. and has used 69ml.. that leaves zero.. and the cartridge is 'empty'. I'm told by HP that there's 'extra' ink in the cartridge to account for differences. That note about it being as much as 25% off though.. that's scary.
What aab1 brought up about the ISS detecting the bulb not inflating was news to me.. I thought the bongo pumps were just sort of dumb posts on a rotating cam.. I'm not sure how they detect the ink level in addition to the chip on the cartridge tracking the amount of ink used.
I'll have to look around and see if I have a ISS I can dissect and see how it senses the pump/pumping at each cartridge.
KiranComment
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Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty
Thanks everyone for the input.Comment
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