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jakani
07-22-2016, 01:15 PM
hello everybody

my company started purchasing compatible due its low price and some problems with old dealer ,

anyway i know from posts i read from time to time that non Oem toner will cause problems in the machine in long term ,

and i will the one that will be stuck with it then ,

so i need some advice or any horror stories about the compatible toner for me to convince them to switch back to original one .

thank you very much ,

copier addict
07-22-2016, 02:24 PM
It would help if we knew what models of copiers you are using.
The company I work for has switched back to OEM for most of our models.
We had issues with black toner for the C353 and C360 series, so we now use OEM black for these and AM colours. Everything else we use all OEM.
Our BH350 series would slowly start producing faded copies after about 1000 or so pages after a drum and dev change. It took a while to figure out why until I had some spare time in the shop and experimented with one. I put in an OEM toner and set the machine for 500 copies and just let it go. Around the 250 mark the density started coming back and by the end of the 500 it was perfect. Pretty definitive I would say. Since the switch back to OEM we have regularly been getting close to 200% drum life, and fusers have been lasting a lot longer. So we have actually been saving money by using OEM.
BH423 series, same story.
Just my 2 cents

allan
07-22-2016, 04:27 PM
Original is the best option for sure but the cost does make it tempting to try it.
Trial and error got us the best compatible stuff out there and its not much cheaper probable like 30% less.

On say a B223 bad toner will chew the mag roller until it shines and shows on the copies shorten drum life and would not fuse properly causing a sticky build up on the roller.
10K to 15K prints later it will cause all of this maladies.

B601 would @#$% out 5K - 10K later

C360 would cost you a fortune to fix.

So get a rat machine to test the stuff on for at-least a 100K.

The German made toners works as good as the original.

cscce
07-22-2016, 04:38 PM
I have a customer with 5 Canon IRA c5030's. They switch to compatible toner and all seemed okay for a while. But then we started having ghosting issues that were only resolved by switching back to OEM toner. Also, when using the compatible toner the waste containers were filling up much faster. More waste = few pages per toner cartridge. So the savings were minimal at best. After returning to OEM toner all of these issues went away.

Iowatech
07-22-2016, 10:01 PM
One interesting way to see if the compatible supplies are OK is to study their warrantee return policy. If you get a bad batch, and you can show that's the case, and they will replace the bad supplies like the OEM manufacturer would, you've found a company that will stand behind their product and is awesome. Otherwise, you're entirely on your own.

charm5496
07-22-2016, 10:06 PM
we always do sample testing in our office or at a select customer to see how the machines hold up with the 3rd party toner installed in them. Normally the machines start having issues with the first couple days, and if by chance they do not the second round of toners installed will cause an issue with image quality. In the end the customer satisfaction just is not worth the pennies you are going to save.

Woxner
07-22-2016, 10:57 PM
Back in the day we tried many third party toner. we ended up with more service calls and parts usage. the machines run dirty. we only use oem

Leebs14
07-23-2016, 10:13 AM
We've found using non genuine toners mean you must change the developer/drums or image units when they are due for change, whereas if using genuine toner then these other consumable parts can be pushed past their life expectancy.

So we use compat toners on low usage customers and use genuine toner on high usage customers.

Seems to work for us

I


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fixthecopier
07-23-2016, 10:35 AM
We use only OEM on our contract machines. We do not sell aftermarket color to anyone. I rarely see after market go the expected life. Most will fail.

allan
07-23-2016, 02:01 PM
One interesting way to see if the compatible supplies are OK is to study their warrantee return policy. If you get a bad batch, and you can show that's the case, and they will replace the bad supplies like the OEM manufacturer would, you've found a company that will stand behind their product and is awesome. Otherwise, you're entirely on your own.

Our supplier imports the 3rd party toners. We did slip up badly with a batch that took 3 months to fix.
Now i just send it back to the supplier if he likes it or not.
He would not refund us for the installed toners only the ones still sealed.
Not a bad guy when it comes to this kind of think and will give us the first "new" toners for free to test and to decide if its good enough.

When in doubt use the original stuff.

Synthohol
07-23-2016, 03:14 PM
just my .02c
aftermarket toner=dirt in a bottle.
my 18 years of turning the screwdriver i have never had such poor CQ, failure to reach yield on consumables, clogged waste toner pipes, caked up toner in hopper, fusers that turn into presses, ATDC sensor failures from OEM toner.
anytime i see A/M toner in a machine the pit of my stomach starts to ache.
YMMV

allan
07-23-2016, 04:48 PM
For the color machines i totally agree, proved that on the C360 machines.
I have not found color toner that let the unit go past yield where the originals will let the yields go past double.

The B/W toner i use seems to be just as good. No ill effects found with that German stuff next to that is the compatible stuff from Japan.
Don't seem to be able to get the stuff from Japan any more.
The developer from Japan was half the price and worked perfectly.

If you can get a B600 to run it's yields then you know the stuff must be identical, may be better.
Even the B163/250/223 well exceeds the yields when it comes to toner and parts (3de party drums, blades, UFR and other bits and pieces)

If not for the 3de party stuff the dealers would struggle to compete with KM directly.
They can beat any copy charge by quite a margin.

Now i remember my days with Kyocera/Ricoh machines.
Its really stupid but the company i used to work for eventually close due to for what i believe was crappy consumables.
The guys there would refuse to buy better consumables and made the work load, parts cost and logistics over an 800 Km radius to costly.
It chewed on the company for a couple of years to the point were they could not pay staff on time anymore.
Luckily i resigned there well before that happened.

For the management, they did not have the correct technical understanding that if you kill the goose that lays the golden eggs things would turn tits up.

neil greenhough
07-23-2016, 09:38 PM
You can't make gold out of lead! If you put crap in you will get crap out. It's the manufacturers fault that this ridiculous situation of unsustainable no profit service costs has driven dealers to using 3rd party inferior toner. If their prices for toner were realistic dealers could make a honest buck. Also if dealers did their homework regarding actual page coverage and pages per job then they would quickly realise that they were on a hiding to nothing. Remember 10 percent of nothing is still nothing! Note to manufacturers - Stop being so greedy and give the dealers a chance. Remember, dealers put right what you get wrong. So how about a bit of payback!!!

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nottoosharp
07-24-2016, 02:21 PM
With sharp b/w machines I have had problems in about 50% of the mx models using non oem toners.


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xdelios
07-24-2016, 06:11 PM
I've used only Katun compatible toners and never ever expierenced a problem in any machine that we've used them.
Only once we had a DOA problem that was replaced with a new cartridge and everything was fine.

I suppose Katun is a guaranteed brand especially in Germany.

Leebs14
07-24-2016, 06:28 PM
The advice and replies you will receive will come from 2 different parties.

1) copier engineers who would use genuine everything all of the time regardless of the cost as it makes their life a little easier and they get paid at the end of the month regardless.

2) people who own and repair machines themselves, like me, ideally I would use genuine every time but as mentioned in an earlier post, the cost of genuine toner can be prohibitive when cost per prints are being forced lower.

Ask your non genuine supplier for the sales numbers of the products you are interested in and ask dealers you know if they use them.


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allan
07-24-2016, 07:01 PM
I think we have all seen what the bad stuff can do.
K toner + B601 = got fetch vacuum cleaned and developer.

paulrid
07-24-2016, 09:44 PM
I only use non oem toner in our Konica machines c252/c253/c452/c280/c284 range of machines. We are a small Indy just myself and my business partner and I don't see any real problems with the toner. We run all machines over life and get what you would expect from yields. Off course I can't compete to oem but we don't seem to change parts early apart from the odd failure.
paul.

nottoosharp
07-26-2016, 05:24 PM
Has anyone else had problems with non-OEM toners throwing up toner abnormality codes the summer? For the winter it was fine by last two weeks I've had abnormalities ten times


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dan7777
07-26-2016, 08:58 PM
hello everybody

my company started purchasing compatible due its low price and some problems with old dealer ,

anyway i know from posts i read from time to time that non Oem toner will cause problems in the machine in long term ,

and i will the one that will be stuck with it then ,

so i need some advice or any horror stories about the compatible toner for me to convince them to switch back to original one .

thank you very much ,

I worked for a Ricoh dealer as a service manager. Owner switched to non oem toner with manufacturer promising to fix any issues. We had a lot of service calls. In the old days Quill toner just dumped out of the developer. At the Ricoh dealer we had a ton of service calls relating to the developers. Owner bragged he was saving $25k a month. But customers were pissed and the techs suffered their wrath. I ended up quitting, two techs quit after I did. Another tech said he called Ricoh for poor copy quality and Ricoh troubleshooter came out. Saw non-oem toner, got camera out took a picture and said see you later. I had a machine this year with toner in a canon box in a canon bottle that a lady bought off the internet. Would not fuse (black) in a 7260. Vacuumed all toner out put in our bottle and perfect copies. In 30 years I never have seen good results with non oem toner. Otherwise everyone would order it. It is a lot cheaper. Your job is going to be a lot harder. First thing I asked the new place I am working at. Don't want to go down that road again!

austonrush
07-27-2016, 01:23 AM
Your question is an extremely broad one as there is no correct answer in my opinion! In my experience it really depends on which brand of copier you service, as well as the actual printing process in the device. ie does it use developer and long life drums, if so use OEM toner. It also depends on the quality of the after market product you may be sourcing.

I only use OEM in all our Sharp copiers, no exceptions. I am not a big fan of Katun product in Sharp Copiers, way to many issues with overall quality and life expectancy. This is not the case for every copier brand. Katun products seems to work fine in most Canon mono copiers from my experience.

Now saying that when it comes to smaller A4 HP/ Lexmark type copiers & workgroup printers we almost exclusively use high quality re manufactured toners, in both mono and colour models. I'm not talking about cheap $10-$15 compatible toners coming out of china. I mean high end re manufactured products that are more on the pricey side, however, they work and are still way cheaper than OEM.

Hope that helps!:D

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