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redime
01-12-2009, 06:53 AM
Alot of techs don't seem to know about this, so I would like to setup a new topic all on its own. I posted this same thing in another thread, but the information is very important. If anyone has questions, please feel free to ask :cool:


STOP RESETTING IU's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Make sure you have Phase 3.0 firmware on your machines and simply do the following at your next service calls.

Step 1. This Bulletin changes image stabilization to extend from 140 copies/prints to 400, causing less wear and tear on the IU and can increase life by 10-15% all on its own
http://solutions.ogator.com/5705.pdf (http://solutions.ogator.com/5705.pdf)

Step 2. Now that you have done this, turn "Life Stop" to off. This tells the machine NOT to give the IU service message, the bars will fill up as normal but will not stop when maximum is reached. This allows you to only change when poor quality is achieved!

(this is for C300, C352, C352P)
http://solutions.ogator.com/6105.pdf (http://solutions.ogator.com/6105.pdf)

or...

(this is for all others)
http://solutions.ogator.com/6525.pdf (http://solutions.ogator.com/6525.pdf)

DadO
01-12-2009, 07:38 AM
Does this work in Eu versions? I hope so....since i tried to put 3.05 and got destroyed cyan IU because machine used all the developer in period of 3k copes.... so i reverted to ph 2.5...strange

but HEY.

GREAT POST!
THX redime

redime
01-12-2009, 08:11 AM
Does this work in Eu versions? I hope so....since i tried to put 3.05 and got destroyed cyan IU because machine used all the developer in period of 3k copes.... so i reverted to ph 2.5...strange
Sounds strange, how did you confirm that it was indeed the firmware that killed the IU?

But if you cant run 3.0 for whatever reason you can at least do the first Bulletin. Obviously without the second Bulletin, you will still need to chip.

TheOwl
01-12-2009, 08:35 AM
This works and all our machines are set up with the "No Stop" setting before they leave the workshop. This allows the extra time for us to get out on site and replace / re-chip the IU.

The only draw back with setting the "No Stop" setting is that the customer is still frequently presented with a screen on their copier advising them to have the IU replaced and then they must press ok to continue to the main copy screen so that they can do a copy job.

Now, I don't know about everyone else, but there are dumb users out there that either:

a. Don't think to push the ok button on the screen, therefore thinking the machine is down.

b. Don't want to push the ok button all the time because it is an inconvenience.

Zoren
01-12-2009, 11:45 AM
Now, I don't know about everyone else, but there are dumb users out there that either:

a. Don't think to push the ok button on the screen, therefore thinking the machine is down.

b. Don't want to push the ok button all the time because it is an inconvenience.

it's funny to think alot of users out there are like that.....

pepper38_cnd
01-12-2009, 12:23 PM
All of that is petty common knowlege, but Owl is right you still get the change IU message before the IU is completely done and if you leave it with the message the custommer has to keep pressing ok before they can copy or print ( which normally p###s (p#@#s) them off). I guess Redime has some very patient customers.

Zoren
01-12-2009, 03:03 PM
yes, i do agree with TheOwl's comment on changing the IU's later on, reasons why most copiers have warning messages to make sure the users are aware of the machine need to change something (ie:IU)very soon...

but the simple "common sense" on the part users themselves oftentimes think the machine is busted already....

DadO
01-12-2009, 06:02 PM
I support redime 105% since there a lot of different users.
U can give them choice! Afcore u wont use this methods in big corporations that demand only quality!

There is a lot of others that use machine for them self and want to spear any cent/euro/penny that they can and they will be very grateful to you if u tell them they can use drums till end :)

My dear redime, i and we from BiH, KM dealers/service houses had a lot of problem whit problem i mentioned, especaly on C252 till K0 firm didnt showed up on infohub that fix this problem. Specificly this problem was on c352.

Today i experienced same :( 2 months after. Dev is sucked away again even whit ph2.5. I suspected on 3.05(when first problem ocured) becouse user say it didnt ask for toner as did before and he have high usage copies. Like stabilization fails...im not smart anymore :) There was low toner spiling but not in that quantity. Machine have 112k

Zoren
01-13-2009, 05:54 AM
yeah, give them a choice i agree. but those choice are one of the reasons why i do not recommend "killing" those important messages. sometimes it fails to do what it is supposed to do.. extending the life of the IU is ok on the part of the users but killing the warning message to change the IU is what i dont agree. you get toner spillage or too much toner consumption coz the IU already exeeded its copy life. often, you get your machine in alot of mess...

time2fly
01-13-2009, 06:37 AM
Thanks for the info this will a big help to me sinse I'm new at working on the konica minolta's. Your the best.

pepper38_cnd
01-15-2009, 04:39 AM
redime obviously has a passion against chip reseting

He must not have a profit sharing program with his employer or even care about whether he has a job tomorrow or not. The fact is that in an independent dealership, we sell service contracts based on the manufacturer suggested yields and recommended cost per copy. If in fact the Manufactured suggested yields are wrong and the cost of copy is skewed then we lose money! The only way we can succeed is to try and accomplish the yields we base our cost on.

Rechipping is our way of trying to reach those predicted yields! We are not a greedy bunch rather, just trying to get what we thought was what we contracted for in the first place.

I would like to see a show of hands. If your are an authorized dealer and after doing all the manufacture has recommended. you feel you are getting the yield they promised let us know.

If you are still falling way short of the yields they say and you agree that rechipping is the only way to break even. then say so.

I personally know that KonicaMinolta themselves agreed that rechipping was the best way to reach there recommended cost per copy goals. And at the time they were actually offering the chip resetting service themselves.

redime is not doing any body a service by saying stop rechipping! Yes I know that some rehipped IU's are prone to failure especially if the techs just simply rechip and do not follow the recommended procedures.

Most Iu's if rechipped properly will go at least another 80%, belts if refuse will go an entire second life and fusers at least another 50%. If you half half a brain you can see the the savings on one copier can be significant. On an entire customer base they can be huge.

If redime was employed by me, he would be looking for another job tomorrow! His advise is just bad and will cost you a ton of money if not your business!

If your are not curentlly rechipping send me one set of chips (only chips on my order form) I will reprogram them for free and send them back to you ( NorthAmerica Only )
Try it and see what you think. I am certain you will proove redime wrong and will be on the road to greatly increasing your profitability. See my links below , or click on the blinking KonikaMinolta Dealers in the banner adds. just fill out the order form and put redime in the PO# line, I am sure you will be completely satified!

If in doubt PM me.

907tec
01-15-2009, 11:18 PM
There wasnt a single part of Redime's post that made me feel he had a passion against rechipping. In fact, im sure he supports it for some situations: especially where even an instance of reduced copy quality is unacceptable. He is simply trying to help some people save money. It is up to the individual company to decide which accounts to utilize the method.

However, it is obvious that you do have a vested interest in rechipping, a passion even. The only differences between rechipping and the "stop-life" option, as far as Im concerned, are these:

1. Stop Life is completely free
2. Stop Life WILL require the enduser to click through an additional step when copying.

If the customer isnt the type to complain about that extra step, it is in our interest to disable the Stop Life setting. Both methods are going to require careful monitoring of the copy quality and quick response times to replace a failing IU before the customer is negatively impacted.


just my 2 cents, what has worked for us in the past.

redime
01-16-2009, 05:46 AM
pepper38_cnd lets start out with a few things before I begin. The fact that rather then come here to post an opinion about my thread - which is what I did; I gave people my opinion -- that you personally "attacked" me several times in your post is a shame to this community. "An Online Community for Copier, Printer, and Fax Technicians" I highlighted the important word there, Technicians.

I am a Konica Minolta classroom certified technician covering 9 of their color boxes and 25 B&W Konica, Minolta and Konica Minolta machines not counting the odd ball 7415 models and the likes, nor the Muratec, Xerox or HP machines that I work on every single day and consistently above my 5.0 gross /4.1 net month in and month out. It amazes me that you would have the audacity to think that you could afford to hire a technician when you can't even afford a domain name and some real hosting for your chip resetting "business". Please do me a favor, you do not know me or anything about me so please keep your personal comments to yourself. This area is designed to help people, if you feel the need to call me out in a thread, by all means take it to the appropriate area. The webmasters have setup http://www.copytechnet.com/forums/rants-raves-everything-else/ (http://www.copytechnet.com/forums/rants-raves-everything-else/) for a reason... Do all your ranting and "everything else" here. If you for some reason hate me; swell... tell me all about it there. I'm a big boy, I have 14 years web experience I am sure I will find your comments and reply. Don't distract others from the main purpose of the Konica Minolta forum.

Of course your thoughts on the matter are going to be skewed when you advertise a chip resetting service. But rather then simply come in here and state your opinion, and possibly back it up with some facts other then pure rubbish; you think "scaring" people into thinking this is a bad idea is going to help you out. Seriously? Someone is going to loose their business because one of their techs doesn't chip an IU? Give me a break!

http://solutions.ogator.com/images/tcr.gif

If you can honestly look at page 33 of Theory of Op. (this is in C250)and give me a VALID reason why it is good to chip an IU vs. telling the machine to keep going by doing Life Stop; then I applaud you for keeping a job in the copy business as clearly you know squat about the technical aspects behind how a copier works.

Allowing the machine to run a TCR adjustment on OLD developer is absolutely terrible and I guarantee you that a machine that has its Image Units pushed to 150-200% life will run far dirtier inside then a machine properly serviced at the required intervals. I would like to see you supply the information where Konica Minolta has said chipping is a good idea and provide proof that they provided a chipping service to dealer branches.

I do not have a passion against chipping, in-fact I carry a full set of chips for all the color boxes I work on and use them when appropriate. I am not here to tell people chipping will cost them money in the long run - I am here to help those folks out there who dare brave taking on servicing their machine on their own. They do not want your service contract, they do not want my service contract; that is why they do not have one. No sales person or technician will ever change that. Why do you think websites like FixYourOwnPrinter.com and the dozens of others exist?!?!?

hsjohnny
01-19-2009, 05:29 PM
Is there a way to turn the life end off on the c350?
I cannot find the option for [service mode] as described in the service bulletin. I also searched the konica site for the 3.0 firmware, but it does not seem to be there.

Can anyone help?

Thanks

hsjohnny
01-19-2009, 08:58 PM
After getting in to the service mode, then the enhanced security mode on my C350, I was able to change the IU life to "no stop"

Thanks a bunch

mjunkaged
04-10-2009, 05:53 AM
Had a customer with a similar problem. MY tech. support said it was a High voltage problem, and they were right. After replacing HV unit, NO MORE developer dump/detone. Was also ONLY one color. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT to check your HV contacts FIRST before replacing boards, It could be a 10 second repair, a bent contact!! No lie!

Desert Rat
05-20-2009, 07:19 PM
:) Great thread,
I will be watching this one as I am just starting to service the KMBH line
of copiers.
It sounds to me as this will have to be handled on a customer by customer
bases. Each method has benifits and draw backs.
Mjunkage, Thank you for your posting in this tread. I know the toner/dev
dumping problem has been dicussed on a few other tech boards and
seems comon on the KMBH's. Maybe KMBH will figure it out someday and
we will all benifit.

See Ya

DR

lucky13
05-21-2009, 12:20 AM
this should also help extend the life of your IU up to 150% + -

mitchl
05-21-2009, 06:14 PM
this should also help extend the life of your IU up to 150% + -

Good stuff I dont know how I managed to miss that on the tech site......... Hmmmmm;)

EUTech
05-24-2009, 09:48 AM
Hey Redime, the files are no longer there.
Can you help me with these files? I really don't want to buy the resetter from peper...

pepper38_cnd
05-26-2009, 01:51 PM
EUtech you do not "have to buy a reseter" no one has to buy anything they don't want. What redime is saying is absolutely true and was presented 2 years ago at the Konica Minolta Regional Dealer Service Managers Conference ( at least in Canada it was). Every Dealer should ensure the techs are making these change before putting a machine in the field.
What he doesn't tell you is that if there is a fax kit on the MFP these changes will make absolutely no difference. Also when the replace IU message comes up the Background Compensation stops ( this is on C250/C252/C300/C352) and the most you will get out of an IU after that is about 6 weeks regardless of copies. Even rechipping after that message appears doesn't work, you must rechip before the message in order for the background compensation to continue. So if you want to leave your customers with a change IU message it's up to you, it is not really extending the life but just giving the customer a few weeks of aggravation before poor print quality starts.

TheOwl
05-27-2009, 01:17 AM
This is about the 4th time I have read this thread and still find it interesting.

I just want to point one fact that has been missed here with the rechipping and that is that you can rechip IU's without the TCR Adjustment running.

Next time you run up a machine in your work shop, read the IU's and save the files somewhere. Because the machine has been run up, the IU's aren't new anymore. Put those IU's into another machine and there is no TCR adjusment because the IU's aren't new, therefore the files that were read from the chips "aren't new".

pepper38_cnd
05-27-2009, 03:50 AM
Thank you Owl! There are alot of creative ways to avoid F8, ATDC, LDedect or whatever you want to refer to it as. I have always avoided these suggestions as what you do with your chip reprogrammer is up to you, and some people take it to the ex-stream and really mess with the chip, so my stance has simply been read a good chip and wright it to a used chip. All of this crap that re-chipping is going to mess up your equipment is just nonsense by those who know nothing of the process, yes they can quote the service guide, but have they sat down with the engineers and actually discussed it ( I think not! )

fishleg
05-27-2009, 09:19 PM
I'm a novice to this I work for a very small company who does chip the drums with no care of TCR adjustment can someone please enlighten me on the harm this would do to the machine ? I understand it would run dirty quite quickly because of the old dev but what harm does it do to re-run the dev if its used ?

Sorry proberly like the daftest question in the world but I wanna learn these things as we do chip the drums so much so if theres a way to not do so much harm to the machine then i'm all ears.

pepper38_cnd
05-27-2009, 10:49 PM
Basically TRC sets the Starting value for the Toner Carrier Ratio in the image unit. This is performed when a new IU or a new iu chip is installed. If the actual TCR is too close to the upper or lower acceptable limits then you will end up with a Toner density Error for that IU shortly after the Iu request toner. This is why it is very important to do an Auto Toner TCR before rechipping. See the attached for some tips on rechipping, we have had great success following these guidelines.

fishleg
05-28-2009, 09:06 AM
So what your saying is that if the tcr is quite low in the IU thats being chipped when you chip it the machine will think its a new drum so it assumes its already at the desired tcr. The start values will all be to pot so when it adds toner after a few hundred copies it will push it over the edge and cause a tcr error ?

pepper38_cnd
05-28-2009, 01:14 PM
The problem is usually that if you start too low then at some point it may drop below the lower limit and pop a toner low density error. Think of it as a scale from 0 to 10 ideally TCR may have a set value of 5 and float between 3 and 7 depending on how much toner is being used and added, the lower limit may be 1 and the upper 9. If you chip the IU when the level is at 3 and that becomes the set value, there is no doubt that it will have a good possibility of dropping down to 1 which will prompt an error. These numbers are for example only, but you get the picture.

fishleg
05-28-2009, 10:08 PM
Thank you for explaining that does actually make sense :).

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