BH Pro C500 with FS-606 12X18" jams

[Desert Rat]

, I wanted to share this problem because it seemed like a tough one,
untill I solved it.
The 12X18" glossy stock would jam and the 11X17 would not. They
special order their paper so I did not want to run very much. This was
part of the problem. Because they also run a 12X18" heavy stock matt
finish paper. I could get a few of these sheets through. The glossy
paper is a lighter weight. (Close to 28lb).
All the inputs and outputs checked good. I manually fed a sheet of the
heavier 12X18 through to check for obstruction and it fed through fine.
After about 2weeks I removed the punch unit and installed the guide
plate. It was then that I noticed that the front of the guide above
the Plastic piece that drops down was twisted just enough to pinch the
12X18". Untwist and it runs paper no troubles.
This is happening right at the entrance to the finisher. The codes I got
were 72-17. I also got some that refered to the by pass. But it would
not put the paper size at the end of the jam in the log. So I changed the
by pass rollers due to high milege. It did not help.

Hope this helps someone some day.

DR

[RRodgers]

Cool, glad you got it sorted. On a note, when ever dealing with a machine that runs coated paper you are going to need to clean the rollers a little more often. This is not just the feed rollers but the transport rollers and just about any roller the paper comes in contact with.
HTH

[Desert Rat]

RRodgers,
Thanks for the hint. My learning curve is pretty sharp right now. But I
will flat it out sooner or later.
Right now I am working on an SC28-01 code on a C500. Abnormal yellow
charger detected continuously. I will see that machine this morning.

See Ya

DR

[RRodgers]

Check and make sure the charge wire is seated in the holder correctly, also make sure the dev hasn't leaded out the side of the dev unit.

[Desert Rat]

RRodgers,
I just found the problem. Or I should say another tech pointed out.
The yellow and black chargers were not correctly seated. This make
sense, because the first time I opened the process unit and closed it
the unit came into contact with the latch on the left. I bent the latch
so it would go through the hole. I should have bent the whole process
unit. That is why the charger was not seated correctly and all the parts
removed from this unit(35K) and installed in the canibalized unit still
worked without a code.
I must be a magnet for these types of problems.
The copy looks ok some mottle in the blue, cyan and magenta. Have
done toner refresh 3 times not much change.
Also the lead edge erase is 22mm.
The blue is a dark blue leaning toward purple.
This is where I usually have the most questions. Last time I did pretty
much the same things I have done here. Only it came out blue without
mottle.

And the battle continues.

DR

[Desert Rat]

Hmm, I am having trouble getting the calibration right, so process gray
looks gray.
I was on the screen for gamma offset. I adjusted the C & K to get an
image between the 2 gray bars at the bottom. that went ok.
The next part is where I'm having a problem. The scale on the top right
is brown. Is that normal? And the squares on the bottom right, well I am
having trouble there two.
Should I continue with the next adjustment and then come back?
The next adjustment would be to calibrate the gamma sensor. It seems
to me that the sensor should be done first.
I do have the Kodak strips available. And the gray scale on that looks ok
till you look at the 10% patch. Then it looks kinda blueish.
The Creo fiery is not connected yet. That comes after I am done with
engine calibration.

Any helpful hints?

Thanks

DR

[Stirton.M]

Hmm, I am having trouble getting the calibration right, so process gray
looks gray.
I was on the screen for gamma offset. I adjusted the C & K to get an
image between the 2 gray bars at the bottom. that went ok.
The next part is where I'm having a problem. The scale on the top right
is brown. Is that normal? And the squares on the bottom right, well I am
having trouble there two.
Should I continue with the next adjustment and then come back?
The next adjustment would be to calibrate the gamma sensor. It seems
to me that the sensor should be done first.
I do have the Kodak strips available. And the gray scale on that looks ok
till you look at the 10% patch. Then it looks kinda blueish.
The Creo fiery is not connected yet. That comes after I am done with
engine calibration.

Any helpful hints?

Thanks

DR

When you are setting up a machine for the first time, follow the setup instructions to a tee.

That said. When doing PMs that involve the drum units or transfer or charge, I always do a drum potential adjust as well as a gamma adjust in tech rep, under drum peculiarity. If I also do a developer replacement or new starter in the dev unit, make sure to do the automatic developer charge before ANY of the other settings. Then do drum rotation, blade setting, drum potential and auto gamma in that order.

Then in test mode, output test pattern 53 with about 100-120 halftone on as large a paper source you can use. 13x19 will show you the entire output to show if there are any defects such as dust blocking the laser path to the drum or uneven charge and so on. I usually do yellow last, and blend that with one of the other colours so I can see any issues with yellow.

If all is good, then do a calibrate from the Creo (which is NOT Fiery btw). I have yet to use any of the other settings like gamma offset and all that. Truth be told, if the user is planning to use this as a fancy photocopier, they are better off with a C650. Use of the scanner is limited and generally is not recommended in a print shop environment. ESPECIALLY using the kodac color strip calibration. Simply a waste of time.

Use the calibrator from the Creo (hand held calibrator) to adjust for proper processed grey scales.

And btw, about your question on the test patterns regarding a brownish look, yes...it is normal. Consult your tech manuals on this subject.

[Desert Rat]

Thanks for your reply Stirton.M,
I would like to have a hand held calibrator. The book mentions a couple
of different models. As I am an Indy most of the time the machines I
work on are bought wholesale. So I usually don't get the op manuals
that go with it. And this is a new model for me.
I do have the offical manuals, and I have been reading them alot. This is
the first time I have ever tried to do a calibration. So I am folowing the
book very closely. I also have a color workbook for the 8050 colorforce.
Same basic machine. Target 53 was never mentioned in either publication
I was reading. It did say to make copies at different density settings.
But would only give me a blank. As for the colors, I think they are pretty
good on the Red & Green. The mottle I saw was from 20lb paper. I am
using a better stock now and the mottle is gone.
I am just tring to get the gray to look gray instead of cyan tinted gray.
And the blue on the Katun test target is almost purple. Or getting there.

Thanks for your help

DR

[Stirton.M]

I agree. Pattern 53 is not mentioned in any of the test routines. I stumbled upon it a while ago while reviewing some other problem. What I found was that I could attain a much better half tone at 100 using 53 than I could at pattern 1.

As to the hand held calibrator, our office has a standing order regarding the sales of any fiery going to a print shop. The sale must include an ES1000. If it does not, we order one and charge to sales the costs. Doing a calibration off the glass simply does not yield the same results and in any print shop as I am sure you are aware, colour accuracy is likely one of the most important requirements.

On the Creo, I was under the impression one came with the unit. But in closer inspection, I see this is also an option.

Reviewing some other information, I did find that yes, doing a gamma offset adjust is recommended. I've never personally had to use this except in areas where there was no densitometer to do the job and I was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Even then, I shudder at how significant a difference can be made between off the glass calibration vs that of the hand held.

On the Fiery option, the interface allows the user to calibrate the glass scanner itself prior to doing the colourcal for the fiery. It sort of does an ok job. But like I said, nowhere near as good as a hand held. I do not know about the Creo. We've only sold one of these and it was sold with the hand scanner, so I've never seen an off the glass calibration routine on these. Perhaps you can shed some light on this when you set yours up.

We have an ES1000 in our shop for on the spot field calibrations where one was never sold to the customer, those being mainly machines sold with a Fiery to office environments, C451 for example.

[Desert Rat]

I don't know how much light I will shed on this, so far I still feel in the
dark. I am trying to get a feel for the adjustment in the book.
I guessing I am trying to adjust the square in the middle for brown?
So I switch back to running a Katun B/W target on full color.
Trial and error is long and sometimes confussing.
I feel I'm as pretty close eyeball wise. I wrote down my start point so I
could go back and start over from where I started if needed.
So I moved on the Gamma sensor adjustment. It gives me an error#2,
put green arrow on left side of glass. Well it is on the left side and it does
not see it.????? I have 10 sheet of paper on top of it and I bought some
24lb smooth finish laser paper so I could complete these adjustments.
I have to deliver this unit on Monday.
I am going to look at target #53 at the settings mentioned.

[Desert Rat]

StirtonM,
I just ran target #53. The copy came out blank. What now???

DR