bizhub PRO 950, gathering paper in the drum cleaning unit and beyond ...

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  • blackcat4866
    Master Of The Obvious

    Site Contributor
    10,000+ Posts
    • Jul 2007
    • 22619
    #1

    bizhub PRO 950, gathering paper in the drum cleaning unit and beyond ...

    I've got three machines in the same building doing this. Most times it's just a single page in the cleaning unit hanging down, causing J31-02 and J17-01 jams. Also C47-05 and C67-18 codes. And the typical streaks when the drum isn't cleaning. At the beginning it was always the blue colored paper, but lately some of them have been white paper, some simplex, some duplex. The one machine collects two pages: one inside the cleaning unit and one between the primary charge and the drum, causing gray images with no vestige of the original image (the optical path is blocked by paper). The last few have re-occurred at 1 week intervals.

    Copy counts between 700K and 500K. I've PM'ed all of these machines with the 500K kit. The transfer separation charge units are clean and look good. I ran the high voltage auto adjust today, just for kicks. It's my understanding though that separation voltage is controlled by the potential control, and I'm more likely to cause problems than fix them by setting/changing the separation settings. Today I've also enabled transfer assist for first side images (DIPSW 15-0 set to 1). It's my understanding that transfer assist is normally triggered on second side images and heavier weight media.

    I've watched hundreds of pages pass. There is no problem with the operation of the drum claws and solenoid, separation charge, and transport suction fan. The paper never "floats" down onto the bed, like a shorted s/t unit might cause.

    What have you seen? The drum will not continue to survive these wraps.
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=
    Tags: incorrectly
    • MAD0RAM
      Technician

      50+ Posts
      • Oct 2012
      • 82
      #2
      Re: bizhub PRO 950, gathering paper in the drum cleaning unit and beyond ...

      I have this happen every so often by multiple machines and it goes away as fast as it happens.
      I think it has something to do with humidity or lack of.

      I think the problem is in the transfer sep unit and possible carbon build up that cant be seen.
      Replacing the unit has always worked for me.

        Comment

        • blackcat4866
          Master Of The Obvious

          Site Contributor
          10,000+ Posts
          • Jul 2007
          • 22619
          #3
          Re: bizhub PRO 950, gathering paper in the drum cleaning unit and beyond ...

          Thanks MADORAM. I'll get an s/t unit on order. =^..^=
          If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
          1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
          2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
          3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
          4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
          5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

          blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

            Comment

            • kalindd
              Trusted Tech

              100+ Posts
              • Jun 2008
              • 192
              #4
              Re: bizhub PRO 950, gathering paper in the drum cleaning unit and beyond ...

              I had similar problem with Konica 7085. It was caused by the registration clutch, paper was released earlier and the drum claws were still in lower position, combined with temp and humidity factor, there you go.
              But here in Bizhub 950 it is motor, so it may be something else.
              Check you image lead edge, if it vary, it may be cause of your troubles.

              Or try to disable "drum potential sensor" dipsw 6-7 from 0 to 1 then run High voltage adj. may be your drum is over charged. Did you check your drum ground?

              Good luck.

                Comment

                • blackcat4866
                  Master Of The Obvious

                  Site Contributor
                  10,000+ Posts
                  • Jul 2007
                  • 22619
                  #5
                  Re: bizhub PRO 950, gathering paper in the drum cleaning unit and beyond ...

                  Originally posted by kalindd
                  Check you image lead edge, if it vary, it may be cause of your troubles.
                  I haven't noticed any variation in the image registration, but it's certainly possible. Less likely, I think, with a registration motor.


                  Originally posted by kalindd
                  Or try to disable "drum potential sensor" dipsw 6-7 from 0 to 1 then run High voltage adj. may be your drum is over charged. Did you check your drum ground?
                  I ran the high voltage auto adjust, but had not shut off potential control. Does it matter?
                  A bad drum ground usually produces heavy background and potential control errors. I'm getting neither of those. The errors I am getting are the result of paper blocking the potential control and IDCS. Symptoms, not causes.

                  Also, I doubt that the drum peculiarity adjustments would have completed successfully if there was a bad drum ground.
                  =^..^=
                  If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                  1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                  2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                  3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                  4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                  5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                  blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                    Comment

                    • kalindd
                      Trusted Tech

                      100+ Posts
                      • Jun 2008
                      • 192
                      #6
                      Re: bizhub PRO 950, gathering paper in the drum cleaning unit and beyond ...

                      Originally posted by blackcat4866
                      I ran the high voltage auto adjust, but had not shut off potential control. Does it matter?
                      As far as I know it matters, this is taken from Konica service manual:
                      " DipSW 6-7 - Drum potential auto adjustment:
                      This bit determines whether drum potential adjustment is to be made using a drum potential sensor. This setting is
                      used to check whether an image problem has been caused by a faulty drum potential sensor."
                      Originally posted by blackcat4866
                      A bad drum ground usually produces heavy background and potential control errors. I'm getting neither of those.
                      Totally agree with you.
                      Good luck.

                        Comment

                        • HoonBoy
                          Trusted Tech

                          100+ Posts
                          • May 2011
                          • 130
                          #7
                          Re: bizhub PRO 950, gathering paper in the drum cleaning unit and beyond ...

                          Hi, i used to work on the bizhub pro's 1050, and now regularly work on Bizhub 601/751... Does the 950 have the multi feed sensor? and is it activated? Had a few bizhub 601/751 having this problem every now and then... until i noticed finally that the problem was caused by the multi feed of a certain tray.. solved by a simple replacement of the separator roller...

                            Comment

                            • blackcat4866
                              Master Of The Obvious

                              Site Contributor
                              10,000+ Posts
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 22619
                              #8
                              Re: bizhub PRO 950, gathering paper in the drum cleaning unit and beyond ...

                              Originally posted by HoonBoy
                              Hi, i used to work on the bizhub pro's 1050, and now regularly work on Bizhub 601/751... Does the 950 have the multi feed sensor? and is it activated? Had a few bizhub 601/751 having this problem every now and then... until i noticed finally that the problem was caused by the multi feed of a certain tray.. solved by a simple replacement of the separator roller...
                              Is it activated? I'll have to look. It makes sense thought, at least for the one that collects the paper in the primary. The paper removed is always blank. Lets say two lapped sheets feed up to the separation. The first page will exit, but the separation will shut off before the second clears, and perhaps it wraps. And it may not even show a jam if the machine wasn't expecting the second sheet.

                              How simple. =^..^=
                              If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                              1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                              2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                              3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                              4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                              5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                              blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                Comment

                                • MAD0RAM
                                  Technician

                                  50+ Posts
                                  • Oct 2012
                                  • 82
                                  #9
                                  Re: bizhub PRO 950, gathering paper in the drum cleaning unit and beyond ...

                                  Did you find the issue?

                                    Comment

                                    • blackcat4866
                                      Master Of The Obvious

                                      Site Contributor
                                      10,000+ Posts
                                      • Jul 2007
                                      • 22619
                                      #10
                                      Re: bizhub PRO 950, gathering paper in the drum cleaning unit and beyond ...

                                      We haven't eaten any paper in the last week. I've got an s/t unit and PF rollers on order. They'll go into the first machine that eats more paper. I'll post any new information. Thanks. =^..^=
                                      If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                      1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                      2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                      3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                      4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                      5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                      blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                        Comment

                                        • MAD0RAM
                                          Technician

                                          50+ Posts
                                          • Oct 2012
                                          • 82
                                          #11
                                          Re: bizhub PRO 950, gathering paper in the drum cleaning unit and beyond ...

                                          Originally posted by blackcat4866
                                          We haven't eaten any paper in the last week. I've got an s/t unit and PF rollers on order. They'll go into the first machine that eats more paper. I'll post any new information. Thanks. =^..^=

                                          Thats what I was saying we have it happen off and on throughout the year and it stops as quick as it starts.

                                          If it persists past a few times change the unit if not I think its just a change in the humidity or something.

                                            Comment

                                            • blackcat4866
                                              Master Of The Obvious

                                              Site Contributor
                                              10,000+ Posts
                                              • Jul 2007
                                              • 22619
                                              #12
                                              Re: bizhub PRO 950, gathering paper in the drum cleaning unit and beyond ...

                                              Thanks, madoram. =^..^=
                                              If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                              1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                              2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                              3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                              4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                              5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                              blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                                Comment

                                                • blackcat4866
                                                  Master Of The Obvious

                                                  Site Contributor
                                                  10,000+ Posts
                                                  • Jul 2007
                                                  • 22619
                                                  #13
                                                  Re: bizhub PRO 950, gathering paper in the drum cleaning unit and beyond ...

                                                  Still OK. The only productive thing that I did was enable transfer assist for first side. And remove the paper scouring the drum.

                                                  Did I fix something? Odds are: "unlikely". Probably something environmental that I'll never understand. =^..^=
                                                  If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                                  1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                                  2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                                  3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                                  4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                                  5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                                  blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                                    Comment

                                                    • blackcat4866
                                                      Master Of The Obvious

                                                      Site Contributor
                                                      10,000+ Posts
                                                      • Jul 2007
                                                      • 22619
                                                      #14
                                                      Re: bizhub PRO 950, gathering paper in the drum cleaning unit and beyond ...

                                                      Three out of four machines in this building digested more paper yesterday. Some blue, some white. All of the pages I removed today were printed on at least one side, so no evidence of double-feeds ... of course the wrap would be printed, and the blank passed through to the tray with the rest of the printed set.

                                                      There has got to be something environmental going on here. It's just too coincidental. Humidity or lack of it? Batch of paper? Power events?
                                                      I wish I had the tray #3 rollers with me today, but they aren't here yet. This is bugging the shit out of me. =^..^=
                                                      If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                                      1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                                      2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                                      3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                                      4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                                      5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                                      blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                                        Comment

                                                        • MAD0RAM
                                                          Technician

                                                          50+ Posts
                                                          • Oct 2012
                                                          • 82
                                                          #15
                                                          Re: bizhub PRO 950, gathering paper in the drum cleaning unit and beyond ...

                                                          Originally posted by blackcat4866
                                                          Three out of four machines in this building digested more paper yesterday. Some blue, some white. All of the pages I removed today were printed on at least one side, so no evidence of double-feeds ... of course the wrap would be printed, and the blank passed through to the tray with the rest of the printed set.

                                                          There has got to be something environmental going on here. It's just too coincidental. Humidity or lack of it? Batch of paper? Power events?
                                                          I wish I had the tray #3 rollers with me today, but they aren't here yet. This is bugging the shit out of me. =^..^=

                                                          What makes you think it is tray three rollers?

                                                          And all copiers in same building!
                                                          Sounds a lot like it's environmental to me.
                                                          Try the T/S unit on one of them and see if it helps.
                                                          Was it the same three from the original post?
                                                          If so, Better yet swap the unit from the one that did not do it with one that did and see if the problem goes with the T/S unit.

                                                            Comment

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