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Spidula
01-11-2013, 06:39 PM
Evening all,

Need a little help.

C554 jamming tray 2 A3 booklets J2002 codes. A3 runs fine from tray 1. Very low vol machine. Flashed V68 FW. Took out the feed assembly and stripped the clutch as they are the same as C220 series and they had probs on installs. No joy though. Everything physically looks fine. Was scratching my head after 2hrs so going back with a colleague on Tues next week.

Any of you guys with any info or if had same problem please reply

Thanks

Spid

EarthKmTech
01-11-2013, 08:20 PM
I have a c554 doing this too, fortunately my customer was happy to leave the a3 in tray 1 and I've not heard back from them since.

It seems to do it on first attempt to feed - subsequent feeds after this error are ok until another tray is used and then its attempted again. Nfi wtf is going on, i have a feeling its because this customer is using exceptionally poor quality paper and the paper from the lct is covering the vertical transport rollers with paper dust. As it jams mainly after paper is fed from the LCT.

Spidula
01-11-2013, 08:31 PM
I have a c554 doing this too, fortunately my customer was happy to leave the a3 in tray 1 and I've not heard back from them since.

It seems to do it on first attempt to feed - subsequent feeds after this error are ok until another tray is used and then its attempted again. Nfi wtf is going on, i have a feeling its because this customer is using exceptionally poor quality paper and the paper from the lct is covering the vertical transport rollers with paper dust. As it jams mainly after paper is fed from the LCT.

Yeh, there was a Sh*tload of paper dust on the take up sensor, but give it a good clean.

The customer is actually saying they preferred their C451. I nearly spat my coffee on her!! Ha ha...

Will let you know if we get something sorted on Tues

Thanks for your input!!

HoonBoy
01-11-2013, 09:14 PM
I have a few C284 /C364 machines with frequently J-2002 /J-9901 happening. after cleaning the vertical transport stays away for a while...
Not the best paper is being used with all machines, but it looks like these machines have very tight timings while feeding from tray 2...
For the J-9901 there's a fix in the latest Firmware (Ver. 68) Still hope there's a firmware fix coming for the J-2002...

EarthKmTech
01-12-2013, 02:36 AM
also be aware that the one way spring clutch on the lct vertical transport shaft is an *absolute piece of shit*

if you turn it backwards you will break it and you will get 9901's from tray 3.

you can pack out the vertical transport roller bushings and the clutch with the shim washers from 2 of the roller "support kits".

the clutch is also not orderable as once piece and comes as 3 parts, this is one part among many, that should NOT of been made even more cheaply.

Oh well, keeps us employed.

Spidula
01-17-2013, 07:49 PM
Thanks for the info folks

A colleague of mine went to have a look and stuck a whole new feed assy in. Still doing its J2002.

Customer is fairly happy feeding A3 from tray 1 so leaving it at that.

Next time I'm back I will have a look at the clutches you mentioned.

EarthKmTech
01-17-2013, 10:52 PM
I seem to recall on the training course someone sarcastically saying about the 454/554, Awesome, another km7145, a machine that's too fast for its own paper path and has regular mysterious jams.

Sounds about right to me now :cool:

Spidula
02-07-2013, 09:22 PM
Update for any of you guys interested on this one.

There is now a tech bulletin out for KONICA MINOLTA AUTHORISED TECHNICAL PERSONNEL. Regarding this problem. You should be able to get it on Infohub.

There is a spare spring mounted on the full feed assy to swap over with the problem tray. Did this today and ran 500+ through tray two with not one jam!

Happy Days

Good Night!;)

HoonBoy
02-07-2013, 09:54 PM
Update for any of you guys interested on this one.

There is now a tech bulletin out for KONICA MINOLTA AUTHORISED TECHNICAL PERSONNEL. Regarding this problem. You should be able to get it on Infohub.

There is a spare spring mounted on the full feed assy to swap over with the problem tray. Did this today and ran 500+ through tray two with not one jam!

Happy Days

Good Night!;)


Good to hear, can't find it on infohub(EU), we don't get full access here, any chance you would like to share?

EarthKmTech
02-07-2013, 09:54 PM
the separation spring ?

I was told in training that was to be used with thin paper.

Interesting.

We have just made a habit of setting up all new machines with a3 in tray 1 anyway ;)

Spidula
02-08-2013, 05:15 PM
This customer was using 80g but is really cheap sh*t.

HoonBoy
02-08-2013, 06:29 PM
This customer was using 80g but is really cheap sh*t.


Thanx!

JebusWGTN
05-15-2013, 03:16 AM
Having the same issues down here in NZ, This is the first time I've seen this fix but will give it a go if what I did today doesn't resolve it. Changed both feed tyres and the small one way clutches that sit next to the rollers along with changing the Dip SW 145 to hex 02 (mis-match paper feeds through rather than jamming).

Cheers

EarthKmTech
05-15-2013, 07:41 AM
Having the same issues down here in NZ, This is the first time I've seen this fix but will give it a go if what I did today doesn't resolve it. Changed both feed tyres and the small one way clutches that sit next to the rollers along with changing the Dip SW 145 to hex 02 (mis-match paper feeds through rather than jamming).

Cheers

Wow, how long did it take them to implement this change! And why the FEk isn't it enabled by default.

I wonder how many calls it will prevent with dumbasses assuming the machine is "jamming" because they are feeding an unexpected paper size.

tech51
05-15-2013, 05:37 PM
Having the same issues down here in NZ, This is the first time I've seen this fix but will give it a go if what I did today doesn't resolve it. Changed both feed tyres and the small one way clutches that sit next to the rollers along with changing the Dip SW 145 to hex 02 (mis-match paper feeds through rather than jamming).

CheersFYI. The dipswitch mentioned is meant to prevent the J99-01 jams which occur with mismatched paper so I dont know if it would cure J20 jams. My team have found the spring to be effective for the J20 problem. Just as a warning though, only change the spring when you have the fault. If you change the spring as a `precaution` you can end up with jamming problems again!!!

JebusWGTN
05-16-2013, 02:53 AM
Thanks,

We knew it wasn't related but as we were getting desperate we thought it might change the sensitivity of the timming overall.

Rollers and clutches no joy as suspected so was going to change the spring but instead the customer wanted to change the paper trays around so will have to wait for another machine to test is out on.

Thanks again for the help.

patk
09-13-2013, 04:28 PM
Hi All

Has anybody come up with a fix for this problem- changing the spring has not worked for us on several machines -364, 454.

We've heard rumours of a new modified feed section supposed to be coming out but seen nothing as yet.

Cheers
Pat

dirtyfingers
09-14-2013, 01:29 AM
The spacer/washer mod (for tray 3/4) spring clutch can also improve J20-02

Its a really strange Jam and not an easy one to narrow down.

EarthKmTech
09-14-2013, 09:25 AM
putting the lighter take up roller pressure spring in place on tray 2 has made a massive difference in my experience. But I simply recomend to customers to put the a3 in tray one for "enhanced reliability"

the 2002 jams are caused by the takeup roller pressing hard on the paper stack, causing friction between the fed sheet and the sheet below after the takeup event has finished and the paper is being fed by the vertical transport roller. the small vertical transport roller slips momentarily causing the jam. The standard spring puts too much pressure on the stack and the lighter one has worked for me.

also, the tray 3 / 4 / lct vertical transport clutch crappiness of design plays no role in this jamming from tray 2. The tray 2 vertical transport roller does not use on of those clutches.

The crappiness of the paper plays a role too, as some customers i've never had to do anything and never seen the jam at all.

Hansoon
09-14-2013, 04:13 PM
The C224 series paper feed assy for Tray 1 and Tray 2. Has been designed to feed thin paper (52 -
59gsm) although this type of paper is not popular in the UK this design change may affect some paper
types at 80gsm. And jam code 20-02 or 10-02 may happen.

But, but, but..... Is it REALLY saying that tray 1 and 2 are being designed for thin paper less than 80gm? Who's using this lightweight paper anyway??

Hans

EarthKmTech
09-14-2013, 11:50 PM
Its probably popular paper in the 3rd world, you can't please everyone. But KM seems to think they can.

dirtyfingers
09-15-2013, 04:55 AM
Japan doesn't use 80gsm paper
all the paper samples I have seen from KM Japan are from 70gsm.

I was talking to our paper supplies manager and the trend for office products is to go thiner than 80gsm
Eg - going to 70gsm means they get more sheets per kilo
Basically more environmentally friendly


Crap for the copiers though
- Thiner and recycled ...what next ?

FYI -Dip SW 145 to hex 02 (mis-match paper feeds through rather than jamming) is only designed for J9901 and wont make a difference for J20-02.
Its more for operator error ...even then it displays a message that's not easy for the user to exit

Avskrap
09-27-2013, 02:42 PM
I just solved this on a C364. I cleaned the vertical transport rollers and the one-way clutches next to the rollers. The transport rollers took a while to clean, they were really dirty with some black grime/dirt coming off.
This is a machine that's been on site for two weeks with under two hundred clicks, with less than seventy through tray two. After the thorough cleaning 100 A3s went through without any problems.
Talking to KM, they suspect the rollers are coated with something that prevents it from drying out while in storage, but they haven't had this confirmed...

JustManuals
09-27-2013, 06:02 PM
This Parts & Service Manual can now be purchased for $12.77 and downloaded immediately after payment from:


Just Manuals, The Internet's largest selection of manuals ~ Instant Downloads (http://www.justmanuals.com)


Paul@justmanuals.com

EarthKmTech
09-27-2013, 09:35 PM
I just went back to one machine on an unrelated call that was initially having the issue on A3 from tray 2 and had performed the spring swap. It has made a large difference in the quantity of the jams but does not eliminate it completely. I've now moved A3 to tray 1 and that's going to be my permanent solution from now on for all customers.

rnelson
12-04-2013, 06:52 AM
We've had two C454's (early ones) for high-volume customers and have been plagued with the A3 jamming in Tray 2 prob (mainly J20-02). With the first one, after trying all sorts of issues, including moving the A3 to tray 3 (but we then eventually had same problems in Tray 2 later with A4 even), we ordered the whole Tray 1/Tray 2 assembly from KM and replaced it. Not a problem since. It's part A5AYR70300 and called "Paper feed assy C454e" and was $302.05 and best 300 bucks we ever spent to end the nightmare high-visibility return calls. The second one has just started to be a huge problem and we will do the same. Note that the new units have been modded from the originals, not just a shaft and frame change but also the rollers and maybe more. If you want to try a cheaper option, there's a parts modification for both Tray 1 and Tray 2 with a new pickup roller. Instead of using the same part number as the feed roller (which is unchanged and still A00J563600) it's now a ribbed roller and part A5C1562200. This was on 9/9/13 and applies to these trays for the C224/284/364/454/554 and their corresponding "e" series cousins. :D Try the new roller and if there's any probs, highly suggest replacing the whole "paper feed assy C454e" unit to the new and improved one.

suomi
12-04-2013, 10:53 AM
This solution works fine. You can use thick tape or washer or duct tape....This eliminate 2 tray jam C224-C554e series.


23156

chachadelta
12-05-2013, 10:21 PM
the vertical transport rollers now is changer see the niew machine bh224e b&w;
and we update the printer only with the niew patch GD2-27 .

PaperCut
12-09-2014, 09:47 PM
Same problem, J2002 on my C554e. I change every parts that 's parts manual say PS19, PS20, CL, Washer on the Cluth. Same problem. But after I see this bulletin pressure spring. I try it and so far it work. The pressure spring is soft, so the feed roller may last to 20K to 30K p/c give or take. I just monitor the copier for now let you know the up date.

tech51
12-09-2014, 10:08 PM
There is a modified conveyance roller for the vertical conveyance on tray 2. It has black ribbed rollers a instead of the smooth grey ones and appears to work well. The only problem is that everyone in Europe wants them so they keep going out of stock!

MJabbar
08-17-2016, 06:41 PM
This customer was using 80g but is really cheap sh*t.

This is really helpful thank you.

allan
10-22-2016, 12:26 PM
Really. Its driving me nuts on one machine. More than 500K on the machine and then it would happen mysteriously.
Having this problem on tray 1 and tray 2. Bypass would feed an entire ream continuously with no problem.

So i will try the springs and the dip switch.

This one gives J9901 and J2002 every 150 pages on standard good quality 80gsm A4. Making me waste Friday afternoons in frustration.

Fixed J2002 on one machine by adding shims to the inside of the door hooks. Never had a jam again.
Fixed one with J9901 by removing and reinstalling the door. Also no more jams.

This is silly. Seems to be a combo @#*$ of different solutions for a stupid problem.
Then its just a couple of these problem children. All the others are rocking on with no problem.

andyf424
01-26-2017, 03:57 PM
I've got one doing it now, have we come to a consensus on what the "best" fix is?

mo0651
01-27-2017, 03:43 PM
We have 1 BH554e doing this to us!! No 99-01's but getting 20-02 jams quite often. Paper comes out of tray 2 about 4 inches and JAM. We clean that out and away it runs. We saw that the door
appears warped on this one machine, but it is all Plastic. Shimming latch did tighten it up. We have done New feed section and tray 2 feed motor assembly on back. No help from KonMin on this one.:mad::mad:

tech51
01-27-2017, 07:05 PM
We have 1 BH554e doing this to us!! No 99-01's but getting 20-02 jams quite often. Paper comes out of tray 2 about 4 inches and JAM. We clean that out and away it runs. We saw that the door
appears warped on this one machine, but it is all Plastic. Shimming latch did tighten it up. We have done New feed section and tray 2 feed motor assembly on back. No help from KonMin on this one.:mad::mad:
So we can assume you have fitted the low tension spring to the tray, fitted the modified conveyance roller and the modified pulling springs on the side door?
These are all official mods from KM and they do work.

mo0651
01-27-2017, 09:31 PM
The only bulletins we have seen state "when feeding from the LCC" PC410. That is not in play. Only tray 2.:confused:

antone
12-14-2017, 08:14 PM
The only bulletins we have seen state "when feeding from the LCC" PC410. That is not in play. Only tray 2.:confused:Say any fix for this I am having same problem!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

habik
12-14-2017, 09:44 PM
Say any fix for this I am having same problem!

Sent from my SM-N920V using TapatalkDrive roller new ribbed black.
Softer pick spring.
Separation torque limiter likes to seize up.
Feed sensor are better wiped than just blown.
Lubricating feed shafts bushings does improve feeding.
There is foam padded guide on T2 which can be obstructive, remove it along with the self adhesive tape.
If you have T3 LCT the amount of paper being fed throughout vertical tend wear out the mylar on T2 and causing it to curve on the edge inwards the tray 2 causing 2002s.
Depending on paper registration loop adjustments do some magic as well! ;)
Registration rollers can slow down if bushings are not cleaned.
Registration actuator does wear as well. I change it around 1 mil on most machines.
Presume you are using Grey ribbed pick rollers and have the latest firmware on machine.


Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

habik
12-14-2017, 09:49 PM
Forgot to add.

If T3&4 are used there is one way spring clutch which has to have washer and then c-clip.
They like to seize and when cleaning vertical rollers roll the rolls in feed direction as if you turn the other way the spring may come out of position inside the clutch.

Hope this helps!

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

oldcopyguy
02-09-2018, 09:31 PM
Update for any of you guys interested on this one.

There is now a tech bulletin out for KONICA MINOLTA AUTHORISED TECHNICAL PERSONNEL. Regarding this problem. You should be able to get it on Infohub.

There is a spare spring mounted on the full feed assy to swap over with the problem tray. Did this today and ran 500+ through tray two with not one jam!

Happy Days

Good Night!;)


This has worked every time I've tried it!!!

antone
08-02-2018, 04:37 PM
What infohub....not sure what U mean

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Synthohol
08-02-2018, 08:18 PM
mykonicaminolta.com is the US version

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