MP4500/MP4000 Ongoing Copy Quality Issues

[Caveman]

I have a large population of MP4500 and MP4000 units that I service. These units are proving to be extremely difficult to regulate with regard to overtoniing and ongoing copy quality problems that show as dirty background and banding. In most cases the drum and developer fail far short of the expected yield. I have been working diligently to find a lasting solution to these problems. Lately I have been concentrating primarily on the mag. roller assy - in most cases I find that the surface is heavily coated with a very dense toner residue. If there are any suggestions as to what can be done to help get these particular models to run more consistently regarding overall copy quality please advise.

I would like to thank everyone in advance for your input and assistance.

Caveman

[Kopyrtek]

Well dont feel like you are alone in this.We have been having problems since we put these out too.Although tech bulletins on this have helped some, not all will.Lightly cleaning the mag roller with a scoth brite has helped with the build up and overtoning but there is still no sure fire way to resolve this as yet.
Replacing drum and developer is costly and still no word on a permanant fix from Ricoh.

[Shadow1]

I spent the last few days at Ricoh Tech school - the instructors get a lot of inside info...

There is a new formula toner and developer supposed to be released shortly. This is what we have been telling them the problem was from the start!

In the mean time, several techs have been running the B079 developer and toner and getting the machines to run a full PM cycle. You have to "hack" the toner hopper, toner motor, change fuser temp, and make sure the customer gets the "right" toner and it triples your service intervals.

[techspec]

Ricoh have modified the Dev unit, part number D0092301, I have fitted a few of these and so far so good
The mod bulletin number for this is MD009017

[nmfaxman]

I have been adjusting the doctor blade gap to a tight .35mm.
I figured it was too high of a brush causing the toner to be pressed into the mag roller.
So far all my machines have reduced in calls for this problem.
I have even found the gap to be .45 on the front and .40 in the rear on brand new machines.
I check the gap everytime I replace the developer.

[FRIDGEMAGNET]

Here in Europe we now have a problem with faulty toner cartridges - the end that drives from the motor has not been moulded correctly - gives faint copies and add toner.

[cobiray]

Ricoh has know about this for months. As stated before, you can get the machines to run with the B079 supplies, but it can cause a supply nightmare if not everyone in your company understands (Ask me how I know...)

The newest dev units have additional vents and filters on them. I don't know if there are any internal changes or not. I still don't have these machines going to yield, even after dev units, drum shaft and drum grounds being replaced. I really don't understand why it took so long to develop a new toner formula??? If the toner fuses to the mag roller, isn't it a little bit obvious?

Any time frame on the "shortly" to be released new toner?

[zico21]

I spoke with our Regional Tech manager today and these were the current recommendations/thoughts for MP3500/4500 and 4000/5000 series.

Clean the mag roller with cloth only. No ScotchBrite or brass brush. Anything else will created scrates which will increase the tendancy for toner to build up on the mag roller. Suggested using only water although some Techs are using Simple Green or alchohol. Some are using RainX on cleaned mag roller. The new DV units for the MP4000/5000 are coming with a coating on the mag roller to help prevent the toner built up. There is going to be new toner for these models.

Drum ground is vital to both series. Some dealers are adding A0962341 drum ground from old models, mounting it to the screw to the left of the end of the drum shaft as viewed from the rear and using conductive grease on the end of the drum shaft where the this drum ground (A0962341) will contact the shaft. Some are replacing the drum shaft bearing with G0601147. In any case if repacing the drum ground bearing don't repalce the holder (D0091145) as it is very time consumming. Remove the bearing from the new holder and put the bearing in the old holder.

Check for continutiy between D0092317 and D0092318 for the charge roller tin the PCU assembly in the MP4000/5000 series. We have found this to often be "open". The small piece (D0092317) going through the rear frame of the PCU "frame" can be removed and formed to make a better contact with D0092318.

Check Bulletin D009-20 which describes the transfer belt lever being in the wrong position which can cause the transfer belt to rub against the belt when the ID patch is developed. This results in the belt "cleaning" off the the patch causing toner to be added even though the density is actually correct. Keep the toner waste and registration roller paper dust collection clean.

When changing developer, thoroughly vacumm the entire PCU unit, and then block off the toner add "hole" with paper to prevent any toner being added when doing developer initialization. Some techs are running 10 skyshots before doing developer initialization to reduce the toner tensity for the TD calibration.

As per tech bulletins, change SP 2201-01 (dev bias from 560 to 660), SP 22201-02 (dev bias for ID from 400 to 500), SP 2001-01 (charge roller bias increase by 100v).

That's about it, as I recall. These models are driving us crazy and are causing us real problems with our customers. If anyone has any other suggestions, please post them.

Cheers

[Shadow1]

Any time frame on the "shortly" to be released new toner?

"About April" on the new toner/developer... of course there is also a new katana engine being released "About April" so its anybody"s guess

[cobiray]

I am sooooooo frustrated with the response to this issue. April? Does anyone else feel like Ricoh has really, really dropped the ball on this? In April this will be going on 11 or 12 months with no resolution!!! Anyone successfully warrantying any units, developer? Getting reimbursed for labor?

[paulg]

I am sooooooo frustrated with the response to this issue. April? Does anyone else feel like Ricoh has really, really dropped the ball on this? In April this will be going on 11 or 12 months with no resolution!!! Anyone successfully warrantying any units, developer? Getting reimbursed for labor?

Ricoh Europe have a scheme up already with the "new" toner dev, pcu and dev unit. You need to send in smc sheets, copy quailty and service notes.

[VEGACOPIERSUPPLIES]

I was having all the same issues with my mp4500s. What I did is that I changed the developer of the mp4500 for the 2045 and I changed the toner and the toner motor for a 2045 and now they all are working fine. No more issues. Copy quality is great. I hope this will help you...

[Shadow1]

We've known about this trick for ages, and yes, it works great. Its just that most of us have no control over what toner gets put in the machines. The customer calls in for supplies and the warehouse ships what they are supposed to use.

Bottom line is Ricoh failed miserably in their response to this problem, and still doesn't have it fully corrected.

[mrwho]

What's the status on these machines as of now? I've got my only MP4000 starting to give CQ issues, and I believe both the drum and developer are past their life (although I'm not sure - we didn't install it, so we don't know what it got from the beginning).

So I'm ordering the stuff for a PM, and I'd like to get some advice if any - using 2045 parts, although tempting, is not an option, for the reason Shadow1 pointed out.

Cheers!

[Lotec]

What's wrong with Ricoh...

I can not believe that Ricoh continue to "upgrade" a lousy design like this. The AF450 sucked. The 1045 sucked. The 2045 sucked. The 3045 sucked. The MP4500 sucked and so on. There are fundamental errors in the design. Don't they take a hint?

Adonis must die!

They should have had a larger development unit, with maybe two mag rollers. The PCU unit should have been made bigger, stronger and they should have added a cleaning brush too. Replaced the charge roller with a corona wire and for the fusing unit... they should have added a huge cleaning web - that the user can change. They should have had a major waste toner box (it is after all a lot of empty space in the machine).
And/or they should have sent a few industrial spies to Kyocera and copied their smaller B/W solutions.

We managed to stop our salesmen from selling the MP4000 series, after they had delivered one model. We have more service calls on this model then we have on 10 Kyocera B/W copiers. If I have a bit of luck we can replace this model for a MP6xxx from Ricoh.

And while I'm all worked up here... what's with the 1018, 2018, MP2000 etc.. With these small components with so short life... just make it a cartridge model so the user can change the PCU unit and the fuser by them selves. Or make something that can handle 225-250k copies between each PM.
We have customers with rather small HP printers that run 225k between each maintenance EVERY single time. No problem. And they manage several million pages before they need to be replaced.

I know Ricoh can make them better. Why don't they? Is it a strategy to push the customers over to color? or more expensive B/W machines?
If I win a hundred million $ in the lottery, I will design the ultimate copier
Superior paper feed. Large dev unit, large drum, large fuser and a kick ass controller.

I'm going to blow a few old copiers to pieces one day soon. . Fill the hot roller with 50 grams of dynamite, and just connect the detonator to the fuser lamp power. Then all I need is a simple timer, a slow speed camera and Vengence is mine