Give credit where it is due...

[Akitu]

Re: Give credit where it is due...

That is only partly true. Go ahead and tell us how a patient who is suffering from Malaria( tropical disease) caused by Plasmodium parasites, can have those parasites or germs eliminated from his/her bloodstream if a Doctor does not prescribe to him/her Chemical medications. What about the bacteria causing TBs etc?

You raise very valid points regarding medication, but there's a difference between a vaccine and "vitamin boosts" in everything on the market now.

[Shadow1]

Re: Give credit where it is due...

Been on vacation all week, sorry I missed this discussion

So if God is wired into us by nature - shouldn't we all be pagans???

"That's the thing about faith -- if you don't have it you can't understand it, and if you do ... no explanation is necessary."
- Kira Nyrese, Star Trek: Deep Space 9 "Accession"


I'm reminded of a story of a physics professor arguing that if God is all powerful, and He is love than all the bad and hateful things He allows to exist in the world would be proof He does not exist.

A student stood and asked, "What is light?"

The professor wrote a formula on the chalkboard defining the photon, and said, "That is light - We have scientifically proven this. It is fact, now would you like to propose a formula for god?"

The student said, "Just as soon as you propose a formula for Dark."

"Darkness is simply the absence of light"

The student smiled and said, "And so Evil is simply the absence of God and Love, yet we would never know to search for God without seeing His absence, just as we would never have know to look for photons if they didn't chase the shadows out of our world."

[fixthecopier]

Re: Give credit where it is due...

i thought Eric Clapton is God...

Then I am guessing you have never heard Johnny Winter live.


To stay on topic, a lot of nonbelievers would point to the behavior of a lot of vocal Christians, and then to what we read in the new testament, what Jesus is teaching, and see a big disconnect. There is even a bible verse to cover it.



Whenever I see a $40,000 SUV with a Christian themed vanity plate I think of this...

“Give to everyone who begs from you; and if anyone takes away your goods, do not ask for them again.” —Luke 6:30

“Sell your possessions, and give alms. Make purses for yourselves that do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there you heart will be also.” —Luke 12:33-34

He also said to the one who had invited him, “When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.” — Luke 14:12-14


Then he entered the temple and began to drive out those who were selling things there; and he said, “It is written, ‘My house shall be a house of prayer’; but you have made it a den of robbers.” — Luke 19:45-46


In America today there is a growing movement to eliminate almost all social services that benefit the poor, and these actions are being taken by politicians who claim to be church going Christians, the Republicans.

Also if life is precious, shouldn't we show that by feeding and giving medical aid to people who are poor. Based on what I have read, seems like the kind of thing Jesus would do.

[mjarbar]

Re: Give credit where it is due...

Been on vacation all week, sorry I missed this discussion



"That's the thing about faith -- if you don't have it you can't understand it, and if you do ... no explanation is necessary."
- Kira Nyrese, Star Trek: Deep Space 9 "Accession"


I'm reminded of a story of a physics professor arguing that if God is all powerful, and He is love than all the bad and hateful things He allows to exist in the world would be proof He does not exist.

A student stood and asked, "What is light?"

The professor wrote a formula on the chalkboard defining the photon, and said, "That is light - We have scientifically prov-en this. It is fact, now would you like to propose a formula for god?"

The student said, "Just as soon as you propose a formula for Dark."

"Darkness is simply the absence of light"

The student smiled and said, "And so Evil is simply the absence of God and Love, yet we would never know to search for God without seeing His absence, just as we would never have know to look for photons if they didn't chase the shadows out of our world."

Personally I often think that even though I do not worship a god or divine being, I am often left wondering just how great is the universe with all it's wonders that there must be some sort of higher plane or beings that if not created the universe we live in, may just understand it a lot better than we do.

My comment was to simply point out that instead of worshiping whichever God we so happen to follow - if it was nature that installed our need to worship then maybe we should all be sitting around a tree or something and that the idea of that deity being an entity akin to a human is an artificial one.

However it has to be said that whatever religion you happen to follow, be it a Christian religion, Islam, or dancing around a tree on one leg singing Dean Martin numbers, as long as you find what you need and want there, then that is brilliant as you have found your own path to either enlightenment and/or a happy content lifestyle. If that path works for more than one person or they find their own path it doesn't matter as long as they respect other people wishes and beliefs to follow their own path.

[mjarbar]

Re: Give credit where it is due...

i thought Eric Clapton is God...

If you are talking about the guitar Gods you have to seriously consider Mark Knopfler!!!

[Shadow1]

Re: Give credit where it is due...

In America today there is a growing movement to eliminate almost all social services that benefit the poor, and these actions are being taken by politicians who claim to be church going Christians, the Republicans.

Also if life is precious, shouldn't we show that by feeding and giving medical aid to people who are poor. Based on what I have read, seems like the kind of thing Jesus would do.

Yes there are a lot of hypocrites in church. Ask any pastor... There is a vast difference between Christians and what I call Churchians.

...but to answer most of your quoted references: Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Teach him to fish, and he eats for a lifetime. There's too many people who keep expecting fish to be delivered to their door, and this was discussed in The Bible as well:

For even when we were with you we commanded you by word and by deed that though a man be able, and yet he choose not to work, neither should he choose to eat. - 2Th 3:10

[Shadow1]

Re: Give credit where it is due...

Personally I often think that even though I do not worship a god or divine being, I am often left wondering just how great is the universe with all it's wonders that there must be some sort of higher plane or beings that if not created the universe we live in, may just understand it a lot better than we do.

My comment was to simply point out that instead of worshiping whichever God we so happen to follow - if it was nature that installed our need to worship then maybe we should all be sitting around a tree or something and that the idea of that deity being an entity akin to a human is an artificial one.

However it has to be said that whatever religion you happen to follow, be it a Christian religion, Islam, or dancing around a tree on one leg singing Dean Martin numbers, as long as you find what you need and want there, then that is brilliant as you have found your own path to either enlightenment and/or a happy content lifestyle. If that path works for more than one person or they find their own path it doesn't matter as long as they respect other people wishes and beliefs to follow their own path.

Have you noticed that those who believe only in themselves must constantly adjust the rules to retain their happiness, and that it always takes more and more to make them happy? Like a drug addict.

Truth is it's own enlightenment, and need not answer to the whims of happiness.

If you haven't found evidence of a creator keep searching. You've likely been overlooking anything that might interfere with your status as god unto yourself.
521438_509667249076549_1538633474_n.jpg

[mrwho]

Re: Give credit where it is due...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19549[/ATTACH]

If I ever find out a talking snowman, then I'll gladly support your claims!

[mjarbar]

Re: Give credit where it is due...

Have you noticed that those who believe only in themselves must constantly adjust the rules to retain their happiness, and that it always takes more and more to make them happy? Like a drug addict.

Truth is it's own enlightenment, and need not answer to the whims of happiness.

If you haven't found evidence of a creator keep searching. You've likely been overlooking anything that might interfere with your status as god unto yourself.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]19549[/ATTACH]

I agree, I have several friends that I class as being the "religion of the week group" but this is because they haven't found what works for them. Personally I do not believe in any god be it an organised religion or not, I just try to find a quite spot and think about what is wrong and then how to put it right - does it make me happy? Yes quite a lot of the time but then I realised a long time ago that what we want and what we need are often two very different things, and we need challenges to help us grow.

As for a creator maybe there is - maybe there isn't, I am certainly no god and would never profess to be (I might male the claim of being the copier repair god after a difficult machine is up and running but I never take it seriously) and at the moment I am happy to have it that way.

I just wish that just because I don't go to a church or temple people think that I am godless and without a sense of what should or shouldn't be, and that I need a label. I just find my own way.

[fixthecopier]

Re: Give credit where it is due...

Yes there are a lot of hypocrites in church. Ask any pastor... There is a vast difference between Christians and what I call Churchians.

...but to answer most of your quoted references: Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Teach him to fish, and he eats for a lifetime. There's too many people who keep expecting fish to be delivered to their door, and this was discussed in The Bible as well:

For even when we were with you we commanded you by word and by deed that though a man be able, and yet he choose not to work, neither should he choose to eat. - 2Th 3:10

So, since this is a religious discussion, where do you stand? I think I have put my position on the table, so I will ask direct. Do you follow the teachings of Christ and give and help all who need it regardless of what you think of them, or are you as a lot of modern Christians I know who think that some people don't deserve help and have an bible quote to justify it. And the quote you posted, what does it mean to you?



“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
― Mahatma Gandhi

"If the followers of Christ followed him with actions and not words, you wouldn't have to look for Jesus because you would see him everywhere." --fixthecopier

[fixthecopier]

Re: Give credit where it is due...

And while we are talking religion, can anyone explain all the contradictions in the bible? This is the root of the problem. God is like Mitt Romney, he takes both sides of the same position.

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31
19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13
20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21
22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
Rom 1:20
God's attributes cannot be discovered
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7


Start with these and then I found a couple hundred more.

[mjarbar]

Re: Give credit where it is due...

And while we are talking religion, can anyone explain all the contradictions in the bible? This is the root of the problem. God is like Mitt Romney, he takes both sides of the same position.

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6

<SNIP>

Start with these and then I found a couple hundred more.

From that lot it sounds as though God is chaos incarnate!!!

[Chameleon]

Re: Give credit where it is due...

And while we are talking religion, can anyone explain all the contradictions in the bible? This is the root of the problem. God is like Mitt Romney, he takes both sides of the same position.

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6

This is youngs literal translation.
Genesis 1:13 -
And God seeth all that He hath done, and lo, very good; and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day the sixth.
Genesis 6:6 -
and Jehovah repenteth that He hath made man in the earth, and He grieveth Himself -- unto his heart.
When I have time I will go through the rest of the list, stuff like that interests me.. I guess it depends on your point of view whether this is a contradiction or not. "lo, very good" = God is satisfied, "Jehovah repenteth" = God is dissatisfied, if that is how you see it sure there is a contradiction. I see it this way "lo, very good"= lo, very good, "Jehovah repenteth"= Jehovah repenteth. Someone else may see this, wow! that was good, and God won't make man again. It depends on how much you "read into" the words.

[DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS]

Re: Give credit where it is due...

From that lot it sounds as though God is chaos incarnate!!!

Dear fixthecopier & the like, That is the beauty of that book called the Bible! It contains ALL the things which happens in this world. The positive and the negative. The good and the bad. Some of the words in the Bible portray thoughts which are Negative and even Depressing, [Like in the book of Ecclesiastes]. ***BUT the fact that these things appear in the Bible shows that Biblical Faith is BROAD enough to take in such pessimism and doubt.***
- And What is the RESULT of this? Many people take comfort in seeing themselves in the mirror of such 'NEGATIVE' Life, and have discovered that the same Bible which reflects these negative or 'Contradictory' thoughts also offers the hope in GOD that gives life its Greater meaning!
*- If one opens the Bible with an already preconceived mind, or idea, one will be limited to look for, only, those verses which portray Negative thoughts about life or God. The converse is applicable. That is why, you are able to make ISOLATED Quotations from the Bible without giving us the CONTEXT under which those verses appear, in order to appreciate their meanings. Attaching Literary meanings to the words in the Bible may not be very useful every time.
One great 'Beauty' about GOD is that He allows the sun to shine on both the sinners and the righteous. Just as much as the rainfall does not exempt the garden of the sinners. He is a loving father.

[DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS]

Re: Give credit where it is due...

So, since this is a religious discussion, where do you stand? I think I have put my position on the table, so I will ask direct. Do you follow the teachings of Christ and give and help all who need it regardless of what you think of them, or are you as a lot of modern Christians I know who think that some people don't deserve help and have an bible quote to justify it. And the quote you posted, what does it mean to you?




― Mahatma Gandhi

"If the followers of Christ followed him with actions and not words, you wouldn't have to look for Jesus because you would see him everywhere." --fixthecopier

You see, the basic tenet of Christianity is FAITH & LOVE.
Sharing is the christian way of saying, ''I Love you''.
'Be generous and you will b prosperous. Help others and you will be helped.' [proverbs 11;25].
Any true Christian is raised up to know this fact.