Can any laser printer/copier get a cost per page as low as inkjets?

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  • aab1
    End User
    • Oct 2010
    • 305

    Can any laser printer/copier get a cost per page as low as inkjets?

    I had been using only HP business inkjets due to their much lower cost per page.

    I finally got a color laser copier after figuring out I could get the cost to "only" 7 times more expensive than inkjet (2.7 cents a page VS 0.4 cents a page for inkjet) by using remanufactured cartridges and assuming I get 3 refills per cartridge (otherwise the cost would be about 80 times more expensive per page).

    I realize though that I got a fairly small color copier. Just out of curiosity, what's the lowest cost per page the biggest color laser copier can get in color? I assume even the cheapest laser copier can't be as low as inkjet because the plain cost of toner is much more than ink.

    Now for something that could be practical for me, say in copiers under $2000 (or even just a printer, but I prefer a copier), what's the lowest cost per page I can expect without using refills? What brands/models would offer the lowest cost per page?

    I print quite a bit (my HP inkjet is at 250 000 prints) so I prefer to pay more for the printer to then save money on prints.

    Thanks
  • RRodgers
    Service Manager

    1,000+ Posts
    • Jun 2009
    • 1950

    #2
    Originally posted by aab1
    I had been using only HP business inkjets due to their much lower cost per page.

    I finally got a color laser copier after figuring out I could get the cost to "only" 7 times more expensive than inkjet (2.7 cents a page VS 0.4 cents a page for inkjet) by using remanufactured cartridges and assuming I get 3 refills per cartridge (otherwise the cost would be about 80 times more expensive per page).

    I realize though that I got a fairly small color copier. Just out of curiosity, what's the lowest cost per page the biggest color laser copier can get in color? I assume even the cheapest laser copier can't be as low as inkjet because the plain cost of toner is much more than ink.

    Now for something that could be practical for me, say in copiers under $2000 (or even just a printer, but I prefer a copier), what's the lowest cost per page I can expect without using refills? What brands/models would offer the lowest cost per page?

    I print quite a bit (my HP inkjet is at 250 000 prints) so I prefer to pay more for the printer to then save money on prints.

    Thanks
    ummmm inkjet USUALLY costs a lot more than toner!
    Color is not 4 times harder... it's 65,000 times harder. They call it "TECH MODE" for a reason. I have manual's and firmware for ya, course... you are going to have to earn it.

    Comment

    • aab1
      End User
      • Oct 2010
      • 305

      #3
      That's because when people hear "inkjet" they automatically think of those small home inkjet printers which have half a teaspoon of ink for each color.

      I have a business inkjet and buy ink by the liter, 4 liters (one per color) for $200 which makes 50 000 prints. The printheads also last at least 50 000 prints and cost less than $100.

      By the way this is with actual prints, not "5% coverage" which companies use, and most of my prints are much more than 5%, so I guess using 5% coverage my cost per color page is probably about 0.2 cents per page.

      With the 250 000 prints I've done on this HP inkjet I'm about at my fourth or fifth set of liter ink bottles.

      Comment

      • kingpd@businessprints.net
        Senior Tech

        500+ Posts
        • Feb 2008
        • 919

        #4
        Originally posted by aab1
        That's because when people hear "inkjet" they automatically think of those small home inkjet printers which have half a teaspoon of ink for each color.

        I have a business inkjet and buy ink by the liter, 4 liters (one per color) for $200 which makes 50 000 prints. The printheads also last at least 50 000 prints and cost less than $100.

        By the way this is with actual prints, not "5% coverage" which companies use, and most of my prints are much more than 5%, so I guess using 5% coverage my cost per color page is probably about 0.2 cents per page.

        With the 250 000 prints I've done on this HP inkjet I'm about at my fourth or fifth set of liter ink bottles.
        So you're paying under 2 cents per page. I don't think you'll get any toner device for that cheap. Inkjet isn't permanent like toner and theirs disadvantages to inkjet too.

        Comment

        • aab1
          End User
          • Oct 2010
          • 305

          #5
          Originally posted by kingpd@businessprints.net
          So you're paying under 2 cents per page. I don't think you'll get any toner device for that cheap. Inkjet isn't permanent like toner and theirs disadvantages to inkjet too.
          I get my 24lbs paper for 1 cent a sheet so yea that's about 1.5 cents per page total cost for actual prints (more than 5% coverage).

          I know inkjet has it's dissadvantages which is why I got a laser even if it costs much more to operate.

          I'm still curious to know what the cost per page ends up being on those huge machines, can anyone tell me?

          Comment

          • kingpd@businessprints.net
            Senior Tech

            500+ Posts
            • Feb 2008
            • 919

            #6
            Originally posted by aab1
            I get my 24lbs paper for 1 cent a sheet so yea that's about 1.5 cents per page total cost for actual prints (more than 5% coverage).

            I know inkjet has it's dissadvantages which is why I got a laser even if it costs much more to operate.

            I'm still curious to know what the cost per page ends up being on those huge machines, can anyone tell me?
            You should call some dealers up and ask them. It's not a blanket answer. Just as wages changes from local economy to local economy so do prices of goods.

            Don't expect 2 cents though. These people have these jobs because they have car payments, mortgages, ungrateful little bastard kids to put through college, and spouses that max their credit cards out. In other words they have to make a profit in order to live and survive.

            Comment

            • Mr Spock
              Vulcan Inventor of Death

              1,000+ Posts
              • Aug 2006
              • 2064

              #7
              Realistically I would say a "break even" cost on the coverage you are looking at is 4-6 cents per page (guessing on just what you are printing) and using generic toner. Using oem then about 7-8 cents a page. Now if you get a full size mfp with a full service contract including toner then they might give a service contract at 5-6 cents a copy and include the toner and service that is required. But it depends on manufacture, dealer, machine (type and size) and estimated volume. For example I just installed a 35ppm color machine(cost about $8,000) and the service is 8 cents per color. I will be installing a 55 ppm production machine on Monday (cost $50,000) and the charge is 2.5 per color.
              And Star Trek was just a tv show...yeah right!

              Comment

              • kingpd@businessprints.net
                Senior Tech

                500+ Posts
                • Feb 2008
                • 919

                #8
                Originally posted by Mr Spock
                Realistically I would say a "break even" cost on the coverage you are looking at is 4-6 cents per page (guessing on just what you are printing) and using generic toner. Using oem then about 7-8 cents a page. Now if you get a full size mfp with a full service contract including toner then they might give a service contract at 5-6 cents a copy and include the toner and service that is required. But it depends on manufacture, dealer, machine (type and size) and estimated volume. For example I just installed a 35ppm color machine(cost about $8,000) and the service is 8 cents per color. I will be installing a 55 ppm production machine on Monday (cost $50,000) and the charge is 2.5 per color.
                Hey Spock. What's the make and model on the 55ppm machine. We have a 55ppm machine full color but I can't even buy supplies from the manufacturer at 2.5 cents a page.

                Comment

                • aab1
                  End User
                  • Oct 2010
                  • 305

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Mr Spock
                  Realistically I would say a "break even" cost on the coverage you are looking at is 4-6 cents per page (guessing on just what you are printing) and using generic toner. Using oem then about 7-8 cents a page. Now if you get a full size mfp with a full service contract including toner then they might give a service contract at 5-6 cents a copy and include the toner and service that is required. But it depends on manufacture, dealer, machine (type and size) and estimated volume. For example I just installed a 35ppm color machine(cost about $8,000) and the service is 8 cents per color. I will be installing a 55 ppm production machine on Monday (cost $50,000) and the charge is 2.5 per color.
                  Well with my small Canon MF8350Cdn I got the cost per page down to 2.7 cents per page at 5% coverage by using re manufactured cartridges and assuming 3 refills per cartridge before the drums fail. If my business works well with this small machine I got just as an introduction to laser printing to see if I can still make money with the much higher cost per page (my inkjet costs 0.4 cents per color page) I will buy a larger one that costs half as much per page as this one does (I didn't want to buy a $2000 machine only to find the high cost per page of laser printing causes me to loose rather than make money).

                  BTW my inkjet goes up to 35 pages/minute, my color laser is 21 pages per minute, but if I set both to similar quality then the laser one is faster as inkjet slows down as you increase the print quality. There are $25 000 inkjets though that are 150 pages/minute but that's out of my price range.

                  Comment

                  • blackcat4866
                    Master Of The Obvious

                    Site Contributor
                    10,000+ Posts
                    • Jul 2007
                    • 22779

                    #10
                    For starters which laser technology are talking about?

                    The three basic color laser technologies are:
                    1) Fuji Xerox Tandem Engine
                    2) Multipass Pipeline Process
                    3) Oki Tandem Engine

                    The tandem engines are able to simultaneously develop all four colors by using a drum and developing unit for each color (four drums CYMK, four developing units CYMK). The multipass pipeline engine uses a four developing units CYMK and one single larger drum to develop each color individually, one color per pass of the drum.

                    There are many more factors to print speed than just paper passage.
                    A laser printer engine has to do many things before it can begin printing:
                    1) The fuser temperature must be elevated to the proper temperature based on media type
                    2) The polygon mirror motor must be brought up to speed and stabilized
                    3) Drum motor speed and timing synchronized
                    4) Color registration is performed

                    A laser printer has to do many things during printing:
                    5) Toner density is monitored and toner added as needed
                    6) Print speed is adjusted to accommodate media type

                    A laser printer has to do many things after printing:
                    7) Drum and Transfer belt cleaning is performed.

                    Naturally a laser printer engine does much more than this, but these processes all require varying amounts of time to perform and affect print speed significantly. Black and White print engines do not have to perform color registration and color calibration operations, so these functions are turned off during strictly black & white printing.

                    I don't know why I'm answering your thread, because you haven't actually listened to any of the previous posts. You are a cheerleader for inkjet technology amongst an audience of laser technologists. You don't actually think you will convert us, do you? Maybe there's a nice inkjet forum you can join. Then get up on your soap box and expound freely. =^..^=
                    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                    Comment

                    • aab1
                      End User
                      • Oct 2010
                      • 305

                      #11
                      Was this supposed to be a reply to my color VS black print speed thread? This thread was asking about color printing cost but anyway.

                      I'm new to laser printing but I assume mine is a tandem engine, the printer has 4 cartridges, each of which have an imaging drum, corona wires, etc. and the printer prints as fast in either color or black.

                      I noticed my laser printer "takes a break" every so many pages, is it stopping to clean itself? My inkjet does the same, every so many pages it stops and passes squeegees over the printheads and resumes printing.

                      Comment

                      • kingpd@businessprints.net
                        Senior Tech

                        500+ Posts
                        • Feb 2008
                        • 919

                        #12
                        Go blackcat!

                        Kind of makes your head hurt when you think about all the theory that goes on just from printing a document...woosh.

                        Comment

                        • KenB
                          Geek Extraordinaire

                          2,500+ Posts
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 3946

                          #13
                          You said that your are refilling toner cartridges.

                          That immediately halts any comparison with what industry standards are, and numbers that dealers strive to maintain. Once refills are introduced into the equation, you are no longer comparing apples to apples.

                          No manufacturer will condone let alone recommend doing so. Unfortunately, there is no way to prevent it.

                          Refilled careidges are a compromise, no matter how you slice it. Admittedly, some work way better than others, but they are are still a compromise.
                          “I think you should treat good friends like a fine wine. That’s why I keep mine locked up in the basement.” - Tim Hawkins

                          Comment

                          • aab1
                            End User
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 305

                            #14
                            Originally posted by KenB
                            You said that your are refilling toner cartridges.

                            That immediately halts any comparison with what industry standards are, and numbers that dealers strive to maintain. Once refills are introduced into the equation, you are no longer comparing apples to apples.

                            No manufacturer will condone let alone recommend doing so. Unfortunately, there is no way to prevent it.

                            Refilled careidges are a compromise, no matter how you slice it. Admittedly, some work way better than others, but they are are still a compromise.
                            Actually I am comparing apples to apples, in either case inkjet costs much less:
                            Using genuine cartridges in both cases: Inkjet is half the cost per page
                            Using refilled/compatible cartridges in both cases: Inkjet is 7 times cheaper per page

                            On my inkjet I did 250 000 prints and never bought a single print cartridge and the printheads last about 50% longer than HP claims (they claim about a 42 000 page life, I get about 60 000 prints out of them).

                            Comment

                            • KenB
                              Geek Extraordinaire

                              2,500+ Posts
                              • Dec 2007
                              • 3946

                              #15
                              No manufacturer recommends refilled cartridges for laser or inkjet, period.

                              Admittedly, some are positively excellent and are almost identical to the originals with various parts being replaced, not just adding toner or ink.

                              Some, on the other hand, are absolute abortions. Years ago, I had a customer who bought refilled laser cartridges for their fax, and the prints came out negative, as the toner had a reverse charge.

                              I have also heard of so-called "salesmen", who carry a cordless drill, drill a hole, shake out the waste, plug it, drill a hole in the other end, refill with his bogus junk, and then hand the cartridge back to the customer.

                              Because of these extreme variations, it's virtually impossible to tell what you're getting.
                              “I think you should treat good friends like a fine wine. That’s why I keep mine locked up in the basement.” - Tim Hawkins

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