Need some advice on learning networking

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

While I’m in favor of getting a look at the router settings, always have the customer do the driving, even if you need to stand behind them and look over their shoulder. I’ve already had the customer be on the phone while their IT guy walks them through it over the phone.

They have to know the router password to log into it, even if it’s the default. (Note: If it is the default, RUN!) That’s a password I don’t want to know.

It’s alarming how many issues customers will try to pin on us, however unrelated.

Point taken. Like they say, better safe than sorry.

How about Slim and I give you double your money back? Let’s see...what’s two times zero?

We have a deal.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

YOU can always do what You want.
It's called scope of work Not your equipment dont mess with it.
Again You have to learn what Not too touch.
You don't Need to access the router to install a copier.
HELL I setup a machine and there phones stop working Yep guess who got blamed.
As far as No IT who setup there pc's and current network Santa Claus

I 've. worked for two of biggest Copier companies in the world. You touch it You own it.

I think you have a point that the customer could blame me even if I did nothing wrong. But I'd rather know the DHCP range than play Russian Roulette by picking an IP addresses out of thin air. Yes, you could pick in the upper IP address range and you're less likely to chose an IP address that's in DHCP range, but you never know.

I like Ken's idea of having the customer do the driving.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

I don't think I would disable 2.4ghz. I am not an expert but in the past I had a router that advertized in the SSID that it was 2.4 ghz or 5ghz. You could select which frequency you wanted to connect to. There are lots of devices out there that only run one or the other and not both. So you have a friend come over who needs the 2.4ghz (B,G,N) then what?

I was getting frustrated with the wireless in our house 10 years ago already. We have 3 levels and can't put the wireless in the middle. I ended up running ethernet from the basement to the 2nd floor. Never regretted it. It was not tough to do at all. With interior decorator conduit, and a little common sense home handyman skills, it looks very professional. I believe in the long run, it will add value to our home at time of resale.

A tip that I might add is that everyone associated with networks should carry a cable tester, ethernet crimping tool, and punch down tool. These are very inexpensive. The cable tester has saved my bacon lots of times with copiers. For example customer can't print, can't ping ip, no connect lights, etc.

BUT NOTHING HAS CHANGED PER CUSTOMER.

I had one that swore nothing had changed. Ended up being the cable. Apparently cleaning crew moved copier and stretched cable.

It will also tell you if IT/electrician got lazy and is only using 4 of the 8 wires in the ethernet cable or have split an ethernet cable into 2 ports upon termination (to save cable). (more common than you realize)

Other instances, there is 50-100 feet of cable rolled up in corner by copier with no walljack. Or the terminal on end of cable has a broken clip. Customer bitches about losing connection to copier. I have replaced terminals for customers as sometimes it is better to replace a $1 terminal than deal with a cheap customer that constantly complains and doesn't want to do anything about it. Same goes with the 50-100 feet of excess cable. They don't want to pay for someone to do it, but yet it causes issues. I'll do it for them for free and keep the cable (this is with their permission of course)

End of story is sometimes if you give away a couple bucks of materials or simple labor, you keep the customer happy, and end up not making repeat trips, saving you money in the long run on contract machines. Especially when the customer refuses to spend money to get simple things done.

I know lots of you will have your own opinion to this and rightfully so. But in my mind, the peace of mind in not having to deal with these customers is worth the few $ I give away.

I only disabled 2.4Gz for testing purposes. I'm not gonna leave it that way.

[bsm2]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

I think you have a point that the customer could blame me even if I did nothing wrong. But I'd rather know the DHCP range than play Russian Roulette by picking an IP addresses out of thin air. Yes, you could pick in the upper IP address range and you're less likely to chose an IP address that's in DHCP range, but you never know.

I like Ken's idea of having the customer do the driving.

Small network add 50 to 100 the ipaddress on the PC
ping it and use that.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

Small network add 50 to 100 the ipaddress on the PC
ping it and use that.

Maybe I'm being paranoid about trying not to pick an IP address inside of the DHCP range. But, all things equal, I think I'd rather know for sure. It's "possible" that they changed the DHCP range to anything. Maybe not likely, but possible.

[KenB]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

I don't think I would disable 2.4ghz. I am not an expert but in the past I had a router that advertized in the SSID that it was 2.4 ghz or 5ghz. You could select which frequency you wanted to connect to. There are lots of devices out there that only run one or the other and not both. So you have a friend come over who needs the 2.4ghz (B,G,N) then what?

I was getting frustrated with the wireless in our house 10 years ago already. We have 3 levels and can't put the wireless in the middle. I ended up running ethernet from the basement to the 2nd floor. Never regretted it. It was not tough to do at all. With interior decorator conduit, and a little common sense home handyman skills, it looks very professional. I believe in the long run, it will add value to our home at time of resale.

A tip that I might add is that everyone associated with networks should carry a cable tester, ethernet crimping tool, and punch down tool. These are very inexpensive. The cable tester has saved my bacon lots of times with copiers. For example customer can't print, can't ping ip, no connect lights, etc.

BUT NOTHING HAS CHANGED PER CUSTOMER.

I had one that swore nothing had changed. Ended up being the cable. Apparently cleaning crew moved copier and stretched cable.

It will also tell you if IT/electrician got lazy and is only using 4 of the 8 wires in the ethernet cable or have split an ethernet cable into 2 ports upon termination (to save cable). (more common than you realize)

Other instances, there is 50-100 feet of cable rolled up in corner by copier with no walljack. Or the terminal on end of cable has a broken clip. Customer bitches about losing connection to copier. I have replaced terminals for customers as sometimes it is better to replace a $1 terminal than deal with a cheap customer that constantly complains and doesn't want to do anything about it. Same goes with the 50-100 feet of excess cable. They don't want to pay for someone to do it, but yet it causes issues. I'll do it for them for free and keep the cable (this is with their permission of course)

End of story is sometimes if you give away a couple bucks of materials or simple labor, you keep the customer happy, and end up not making repeat trips, saving you money in the long run on contract machines. Especially when the customer refuses to spend money to get simple things done.

I know lots of you will have your own opinion to this and rightfully so. But in my mind, the peace of mind in not having to deal with these customers is worth the few $ I give away.

[slimslob]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

I don't think I would disable 2.4ghz. I am not an expert but in the past I had a router that advertized in the SSID that it was 2.4 ghz or 5ghz. You could select which frequency you wanted to connect to. There are lots of devices out there that only run one or the other and not both. So you have a friend come over who needs the 2.4ghz (B,G,N) then what?

I was getting frustrated with the wireless in our house 10 years ago already. We have 3 levels and can't put the wireless in the middle. I ended up running ethernet from the basement to the 2nd floor. Never regretted it. It was not tough to do at all. With interior decorator conduit, and a little common sense home handyman skills, it looks very professional. I believe in the long run, it will add value to our home at time of resale.

A tip that I might add is that everyone associated with networks should carry a cable tester, ethernet crimping tool, and punch down tool. These are very inexpensive. The cable tester has saved my bacon lots of times with copiers. For example customer can't print, can't ping ip, no connect lights, etc.

BUT NOTHING HAS CHANGED PER CUSTOMER.

I had one that swore nothing had changed. Ended up being the cable. Apparently cleaning crew moved copier and stretched cable.

It will also tell you if IT/electrician got lazy and is only using 4 of the 8 wires in the ethernet cable or have split an ethernet cable into 2 ports upon termination (to save cable). (more common than you realize)

Other instances, there is 50-100 feet of cable rolled up in corner by copier with no walljack. Or the terminal on end of cable has a broken clip. Customer bitches about losing connection to copier. I have replaced terminals for customers as sometimes it is better to replace a $1 terminal than deal with a cheap customer that constantly complains and doesn't want to do anything about it. Same goes with the 50-100 feet of excess cable. They don't want to pay for someone to do it, but yet it causes issues. I'll do it for them for free and keep the cable (this is with their permission of course)

End of story is sometimes if you give away a couple bucks of materials or simple labor, you keep the customer happy, and end up not making repeat trips, saving you money in the long run on contract machines. Especially when the customer refuses to spend money to get simple things done.

I know lots of you will have your own opinion to this and rightfully so. But in my mind, the peace of mind in not having to deal with these customers is worth the few $ I give away.

My youngest daughter has her wireless router setup to provide separate SSID for 2.4GHz and 5GHz.

[slimslob]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

Usually when a customer has an in house IT department they will usually provide a valid IP address fir you to use. Provided that you request it prior to the day you show up with the machine. The best time is when the order is signed. It gives them time to look up what is already in use and annotate their records to show your MFP. If you are replacing an existing device they also appreciate your letting them know when the change over will be so they can change their records.

Some customers have an outside IT service company. Some are good and helpful. Other don't know their ass from a hole in the wall.

Many customers may hope that you can provide IT services to them.

[slimslob]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

I want to follow up on the wireless network discussion. When I switched over the 5Gz, the performance was better. No doubt about it. However it still was showing low performance when I ran EMCO. The router is only about 10-15ft. away in the office across the hall. I decided to put a wireless access point in my office just to see what would happen. Sure enough EMCO changed from low performance to HIGH. I have an ATT router. I guess that router just sucks as far as wireless.

If it is a Uverse DSL modem and AT&T are still using the Motorola NVG510 modem, be aware that many, myself included, consider the NVG to mean NotVeryGood.

[KenB]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

I don't think I would disable 2.4ghz. I am not an expert but in the past I had a router that advertized in the SSID that it was 2.4 ghz or 5ghz. You could select which frequency you wanted to connect to. There are lots of devices out there that only run one or the other and not both. So you have a friend come over who needs the 2.4ghz (B,G,N) then what?

I was getting frustrated with the wireless in our house 10 years ago already. We have 3 levels and can't put the wireless in the middle. I ended up running ethernet from the basement to the 2nd floor. Never regretted it. It was not tough to do at all. With interior decorator conduit, and a little common sense home handyman skills, it looks very professional. I believe in the long run, it will add value to our home at time of resale.

A tip that I might add is that everyone associated with networks should carry a cable tester, ethernet crimping tool, and punch down tool. These are very inexpensive. The cable tester has saved my bacon lots of times with copiers. For example customer can't print, can't ping ip, no connect lights, etc.

BUT NOTHING HAS CHANGED PER CUSTOMER.

I had one that swore nothing had changed. Ended up being the cable. Apparently cleaning crew moved copier and stretched cable.

It will also tell you if IT/electrician got lazy and is only using 4 of the 8 wires in the ethernet cable or have split an ethernet cable into 2 ports upon termination (to save cable). (more common than you realize)

Other instances, there is 50-100 feet of cable rolled up in corner by copier with no walljack. Or the terminal on end of cable has a broken clip. Customer bitches about losing connection to copier. I have replaced terminals for customers as sometimes it is better to replace a $1 terminal than deal with a cheap customer that constantly complains and doesn't want to do anything about it. Same goes with the 50-100 feet of excess cable. They don't want to pay for someone to do it, but yet it causes issues. I'll do it for them for free and keep the cable (this is with their permission of course)

End of story is sometimes if you give away a couple bucks of materials or simple labor, you keep the customer happy, and end up not making repeat trips, saving you money in the long run on contract machines. Especially when the customer refuses to spend money to get simple things done.

I know lots of you will have your own opinion to this and rightfully so. But in my mind, the peace of mind in not having to deal with these customers is worth the few $ I give away.

[tonerhead]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

It's funny how you can go in and figure out something their IT spent hours on in a matter of a minute or two. Sort of raises you above the "lowly copyfixer stupid" status. I was actually complimented by an IT guy lately. He was on the phone with the customer when the customer handed the phone over to me. He said he was glad that he got the repair tech on the phone as customers don't know squat and repair techs are very knowledgeable of computers and networking.

Contrast that to a call my coworker just had at a bank. Copier was moved from one department to another (not by us). It had worked flawless for 3 years in the previous department. Now their access cards are not working, no one can copy, no one can print either, can't retrieve stored jobs, etc. IT gets on phone with co-worker, problem is with your copier, we suspect a bad nic on your copier since it has no connect light, we can't ping it, and it isn't connecting with our ldap server so the access cards can't be authenticated and no one can print. Co-worker said nics rarely fail, have you checked or restarted your switch? They were upset and said nothing wrong with switch, definitely the copier. Now this was pushing quitting time mind you. He said he would be out first call next day, they were not happy. Next day he was out, ethernet was plugged into copier, no connect lights. He follows the ethernet around the corner to the wall jack. Guess you know what the answer is!! These are the people guarding our money. Lots of knowledge, but no common sense.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

Learning to use Wireshark is challenging. There's a lot of data that is captured and the challenge is understanding what you're looking at and figuring out where it resides in the OSI model.

When I started this thread one of the first things I learned about was the OSI model and undersetting it is key when using Wireshark. It should be noted that there's the OSI model and the TCP/IP model and they are different. The main difference is that the TCP/IP model combines layer 5, 6 & 7 into one layer. The TCP/IP model is more practical but you still need to understand layers 5 (session layer) and layer 6 (presentation layer).

At this point I've decided that there's little benefit in capturing data with Wireshark until I read more and watch more videos to better understand what I'm looking at and the logical order of communication.


With all that being said, I'm a newbie to all of this. If you see any flaws to what I said, be sure to point them out.

[bsm2]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

99.9999999 percent of the problem is Not the copier
IE wrong print driver , customer changed password, customer get new PC, change internet provider's, new router etc..........

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

99.9999999 percent of the problem is Not the copier
IE wrong print driver , customer changed password, customer get new PC, change internet provider's, new router etc..........

Not everything that I post has to do with copiers. I've learned a lot of things from the folks that have contributed to this thread that I won't use a whole lot when it comes to a copier. And I've spent a LOT of time to truly understand it. I don't consider it wasted time. To the contrary, I consider it to be invaluable.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

I'm now able to network a copier just about any way it needs to be done. More importantly, I actually understand it instead of entering a bunch of numbers like a monkey....that's what I was doing before but didn't understand what they meant.


Anyway, networking a copier no longer concerns me. Neither does scan to folder. Well, that's not entirely true. There's one thing that brings me a lil' discomfort. And that's anti-virus software blocking the shared folder.

What I see in most offices is that they're running Windows Defender and are also running an anti-virus software on top of that. Sure, I can turn off the virus software and deduce if that's the problem. But what do you do next? You can't leave it off or uninstall it.

I'm not experienced like some of you and I find it really difficult to navigate my way thru so many virus applications in order to allow SMB thru the firewall.

So, what I have begun to do is to create a database on all the most popular anti-virus software with detailed instructions for allowing shared folders thru the firewall.

I'm curious...how do others approach this?