[CQ] Black Drum unit premature failure in iR Advance 2020

[grandmaster]

Dear Friends

I am facing problems in this series of failure of Black Drum Units in 2000 to 15000 prints.
Image quality is very light.
Problem could be resolved by replacing the toner and drum unit together.

On further diagonosis it is observed that developer inside the drum unit is creating problem and has failed to charge the toner.

Sample copyof PG10 is attached for the reference wherein black output is faded totally.

Please help if any solution other than replacing the drum units can solve this issue.

regards

[vamoursly]

Re: Black Drum unit premature failure in iR Advance 2020

Are you getting any error codes? Everyone of these machines we have deployed we have had to change the black toner hopper, because they do not feed enough toner to the drum, there is an amended part for this and if you do a search through the forum lots of guides and how to if this is the case, to be fair I would bet a case of beer on it

Vamoursly

[grandmaster]

Re: Black Drum unit premature failure in iR Advance 2020

Are you getting any error codes? Everyone of these machines we have deployed we have had to change the black toner hopper, because they do not feed enough toner to the drum, there is an amended part for this and if you do a search through the forum lots of guides and how to if this is the case, to be fair I would bet a case of beer on it

Vamoursly

Dear Vamoursly,
Thanks for your reply.
I do agree about the toner hopper issue and remedy,but these cases are even happening with the modified hoppers and even in new iRA C22XX series.

Moreover if we forcefully add toner to these units copy quality will not improve rather background of black will start to develope on entire image.

Any input on this will be appreciated

regards

[SAZ911]

Re: Black Drum unit premature failure in iR Advance 2020

Dear Vamoursly,
Thanks for your reply.
I do agree about the toner hopper issue and remedy,but these cases are even happening with the modified hoppers and even in new iRA C22XX series.

Moreover if we forcefully add toner to these units copy quality will not improve rather background of black will start to develope on entire image.

Any input on this will be appreciated

regards

HI,

let me begin by sayin, i hate this machine, been a canon tech for over a decade, and haven't seen a machine like this. (reminds me of the IR2570Ci).

I agree with Vamoursly in that every single IRA 2020 we have installed, we have had to replace the toner feed assy (fm3-8084-010) upgrade assy.

after replacing the toner feed assy 99% of all the issue (FEINT COPIES, E-020-0360,E-020-0391, E-020-03B1) we had, were resolved.

I have since received an IRAC2020i that is giving me the same issue (feint copies after 1500 copies). we have replaced all four drums, toner feed assy and the problem still comes back every 1500 copies, this tells me that the machine has run low on toner in the toner feed assy, but when i check the toner supply assy it is full. the next thing i have noticed is that for some reason the toner feed assy is not pushing toner to the drum assy (without errors), and thus the copies run feint after a while.

i dont know if this is the same for your machine, but i have also noticed that the drums in my machine don't engage properly, if you remove the drum and close the drum flap you notice that the drum flap closes nice and smooth but when the drums are in, it doesn't engage quite as smoothly as it should. i have a feeling its something to do with the drums drive and the assemblies that support the drum, probably something isn't meshing quite as it should and thus the toner does not feed through to the drum. i also had toner dumping out of the drum on the front side of the drum, which is strange because if it is dumping it should be at the rear of the drum where it meshes with the toner feed assy.


baffling..... will share once i have found a more helpful fix .......

good luck...

[Canuck]

Re: Black Drum unit premature failure in iR Advance 2020

Make this service mode adjustment(2nd level i believe)....COPIER/ADJ/HV-PRI/USUB-KDC...set it to 3. This increases upstream brush current to improve cleaning. Go to 5 if necessary

[vamoursly]

Re: Black Drum unit premature failure in iR Advance 2020

ref USUB-KDC - because I like to learn

I thought that this setting was for low humidity?

Adjusting upwards to 5v - does this force it to float more black toner; so you get more density on the page?

Thanks

Vamoursly

[nghialuuvn]

Re: Black Drum unit premature failure in iR Advance 2020

Hi All,

This issue of BK Drum Unit is quite popular in my market. We are very surprised why that symptom can happen while machine has some technologies to control toner level in drum cartridge such as: T/D sensor, patch sensor, ATR control...
For our cases, to solve that problem we have done some following remedies and effect
- Replace BK hopper
- Replace new BK Drum unit
- Upgrade the latest firmware

Thanks!

[SAZ911]

Re: Black Drum unit premature failure in iR Advance 2020

hi,

so gents i have gone through this machine from top to bottom, it is pretty much brand new now.

I have replaced: toner supply assy BK
all four drums
firmware update to latest version

The above steps have worked for me in at least 10 machines i have done before, but not for this machine....

what i have noticed is that the hopper assy has toner in it and is not running empty as it did before the upgraded toner supply assy was replaced.
I think the issue we (grandmaster and I) are having is that the machine isnt supplying toner to the drum assy from the toner supply assy.

@GRANDMASTER...can you confirm if your toner supply assy is running empty or is full of toner

can anyone tell me if there is a way of supplying toner to the drum, or should i try doing it manually. i don't want to throw another drum at this machine as the one in the machine has only done 1500 copies.

thanks.............

[grandmaster]

Re: Black Drum unit premature failure in iR Advance 2020

hi,

so gents i have gone through this machine from top to bottom, it is pretty much brand new now.

I have replaced: toner supply assy BK
all four drums
firmware update to latest version

The above steps have worked for me in at least 10 machines i have done before, but not for this machine....

what i have noticed is that the hopper assy has toner in it and is not running empty as it did before the upgraded toner supply assy was replaced.
I think the issue we (grandmaster and I) are having is that the machine isnt supplying toner to the drum assy from the toner supply assy.

@GRANDMASTER...can you confirm if your toner supply assy is running empty or is full of toner

can anyone tell me if there is a way of supplying toner to the drum, or should i try doing it manually. i don't want to throw another drum at this machine as the one in the machine has only done 1500 copies.

thanks.............

Hi SAZ911,
Thanks for your detailed explanation.
I do agree that the soloution is to replace hopper,drum unit and upgradation os system software.
However as per my observation the problem is with the design that toner supply is from bottom to upward causing a little toner to mix in drum unit.over a period of time since machine is mostly used for black copies creates deficiency of toner in drum unit.
Cleaning of hopper assembly and PT sensor in drum unit can help in resolving the issue.

regards

[Canuck]

Re: Black Drum unit premature failure in iR Advance 2020

ref USUB-KDC - because I like to learn

I thought that this setting was for low humidity?

Adjusting upwards to 5v - does this force it to float more black toner; so you get more density on the page?

Thanks

Vamoursly

The upstream brush acts like a pre-exposure lamp does on older models. It neutralizes the drum surface to a uniform potential before primary charging. The downstream brush charges residual toner massively negative to be attracted back to developer. The hopper issue is when toner is statically stuck to the transmitter and receivers in the sub hopper. Doesn't see out of toner condition,density drops off.....E-020 errors eventually(ATR low,patch density low,etc).Replacement sub hopper fixes that problem. If your issue is light black prints,hopper will fix it. The brush adjustment works for ghosting(residual image)

[nghialuuvn]

Re: Black Drum unit premature failure in iR Advance 2020

Hi All,
For drum cartridge that create light image, please try to increase T/D ratio by this setting:
Copier>Adjust>Dens>P-TG-X(X:C, M, Y, BK)
Here is procedure for Y color
Adj of ATR control Y-color target value
Lv.2 Details To adjust the offset of the ATR patch target value for Y.
When the target value determined upon initialization is changed,
density and the TD ratio are also changed.
Density is increased when the value is increased, and fogging/
scattering is alleviated when the value is decreased.
Use case When density failures, fogging, etc. occur
Adj/set/operate method 1) Enter the setting value (switch negative/positive by -/+ key) and
press OK key.
2)Make 10 prints of approx. 10% image ratio (ex. COPIER> TEST>
PG> TYPE: 16) 20 times.
3) Execute Auto Adjust Gradation> Full Adjust.
Caution Execute the Auto Adjust Gradation first to increase the density. If you
adjust the offset of the target value, fogging might get worse.
Display/adj/set range -4 to 4
Unit Target value 20
Default value 0
Related user mode Adjustment/Maintenance> Adjust Image Quality> Auto Adjust
Gradation> Full Adjust

Thanks!

[SAZ911]

Re: Black Drum unit premature failure in iR Advance 2020

hi,

so gents i have gone through this machine from top to bottom, it is pretty much brand new now.

I have replaced: toner supply assy BK
all four drums
firmware update to latest version

The above steps have worked for me in at least 10 machines i have done before, but not for this machine....

what i have noticed is that the hopper assy has toner in it and is not running empty as it did before the upgraded toner supply assy was replaced.
I think the issue we (grandmaster and I) are having is that the machine isnt supplying toner to the drum assy from the toner supply assy.

@GRANDMASTER...can you confirm if your toner supply assy is running empty or is full of toner

can anyone tell me if there is a way of supplying toner to the drum, or should i try doing it manually. i don't want to throw another drum at this machine as the one in the machine has only done 1500 copies.

thanks.............

SUCCESS


So the fix for the this issue (Feint BK copies, E-020-0360) remains the same (replace Toner supply Assy, Bk drum unit & firmware).

The problem with my machine was that for some reason the Density signal for by Black was set to +10. when the signal is in a positive figure it actually reduces the Toner Density ration in the Developer Assy. So no matter how many toner supply units you replace over time the toner runs emty and the errors occur.

i have since set the value to -2

Since my drum was new i wanted to save it so i manually fed toner into the drum Assy.....i then did a stir four in service mode to get the toner distributed through the Developer. i then ran 999 double sided black and white copies through with a toner covorage of about 20% to 25%.

As the copies ran and reached about the 250th sheet (page 500) it was already noticeably fainter, but as the copies ran the machine toner supply caught up (around page 700 (sheet 350)) with the drums usage and the copies returned to their normal density. (density signal changed to -2)

in closing i would say the actual fix is to set your signal for you BK TD RATIO higher and run a lot of copies so the toner supply can return to its normal density (manuall feeding toner into the drum was just to help it get past its first 500 pages without bring up the E-020-0360 code before the toner reaches the Dev Assy from the Toner Supply Assy)

Hope this helps, because it worked for me..........cheers....

[vamoursly]

Re: Black Drum unit premature failure in iR Advance 2020

Out of interest, I do change the drum(s) when they get to the end of their service life as per SM, I normally find when they get to their end of life the copies become dirty, as in excess toner on the page, is this what everyone else experiences?

Thanks

V

[bernardo749]

Re: Black Drum unit premature failure in iR Advance 2020

Thanks for your Help. Buy these parts to resolve the error (E020-0360):

Toner Feed Assembly, BK(fm3-8084-010)
Drum unit,BK

And update firmware!

Please, how to remove the first Delivery Tray?

Regards!

[bipc]

Re: Black Drum unit premature failure in iR Advance 2020

usually my drums when they are reaching the end of their usefull life i get light lines on top of the pages