DF621 on Bizhub 223, 283, 363, 423 jam code 66-02

[Don N.]

This has got several of us techs puzzled. We've read the posts on the 66-02 jam code here and the bulletins (attached) from Konica Minolta. Code 66-02 is a failure to feed. Obviously, bald tires can be the cause. There is a second occasion where all sheets are fed completely, but the tires turn after there is nothing there. That is the 66-02 I am looking to solve. I have a video I will attempt to link or attach.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0TP29a-CrlDWTBpdTF1TWRZdHM/view?usp=sharing

Several customers, usually law firms complain of hearing the distinctive sound of the tires feeding against the black felt pads AFTER the last sheet had gone through.
Watch for that in the video.
We have done the following:
Installed washer/shim to center the p. empty actuator on some units where the actuator would hit the side of the plate, per bulletin.
Replaced with new oem parts:
Front & rear arms A143PP9P01 & A143PP9Q01
Paper empty actuator lever A143PP5G01
Paper empty photodetector A143PP4800
Drive clutch/spring/gear ass'y A143PP9R00 on rear of shaft

Previously replaced primary feed, secondary feed & sep tires.
All machines have latest G00-D6 FW.
For two customers we swapped the entire feeder out, taken from off lease machines with under 10k on the feeder. The original feeders had ADF page counts of well under 50k and we replaced the tires & tested in shop. This seems most prevalent when scanning at 200x200 or 200x300 dpi (fastest speeds), less evident on copying, which I believe is a 600dpi scan. the bottom line is the feeder thinks there is another page, so we think the empty lever is not dropping fast enough. This model does not have a spring on the empty lever, but the color series C220's do have a spring.
DF621 jam code 66-02 new levers with new springs.pdfDF621 Washer Installation Procedure.pdf

[Don N.]

Re: DF621 on Bizhub 223, 283, 363, 423 jam code 66-02

Keep in mind it would have fed as many sheets as they want, but after the last sheet it is turning the tires to feed another sheet instead of raising the arms up. That means a forward turn of the motor, not a reverse turn to raise the tires. The resulting 66-02 in the jam counts is because it tried to feed an original but it did not make it to the registration sensor. (DUH, there's no original to feed!) The noise is the tires against the black friction pads. I've seen it in person several times. It's not a belt slipping. Sorry the audio is rough. Maybe I will re-post the video in slo-mo.

[habik]

Re: DF621 on Bizhub 223, 283, 363, 423 jam code 66-02

Have you tried system error clear? Trouble reset?


Sent from my iDon't believe in marketing device using Tapatalk

[TheBlueOrleans]

Re: DF621 on Bizhub 223, 283, 363, 423 jam code 66-02

Perform Sensor Check in the ADF section of service mode, once when the machine is stuck on the code, and if possible, once while the machine is in ready state. Compare reading differences. Machine is receiving signal that paper is present, thus tries to feed it. Really sounds like a dirty sensor to me.

[service_man]

Re: DF621 on Bizhub 223, 283, 363, 423 jam code 66-02

I hear some noise when paper is in exit section.
Did you check timing belt, or some wiring is in out of position?

I think that is mechanical problem.

Pull uot covers, and try to see gear, timing belt, and wire.

Good Luck

[Don N.]

Re: DF621 on Bizhub 223, 283, 363, 423 jam code 66-02

Service_Man- The noise is the tires on the felt pads. There is no problem or noise with exit. I know the audio sounds different, but LOOK AT THE TIRES in the down position, feeding when there is no original

TheBlueOrleans- This problem happens intermittently. It only triggers a jam. It is never stuck in a code. 66-02 is the code you see when you check jams under counter in service mode. You can't be in sensor check mode and make it happen. Paper empty sensor was replaced, all sensors are clean.

[blackcat4866]

Re: DF621 on Bizhub 223, 283, 363, 423 jam code 66-02

I've seen this particular problem on a Toshiba eS6540 document feeder and on a Kyocera Alphard II document feeder. On the Toshiba it comes up as a E712 code. This fits with your bulletin about the flag hitting the side of the valley. A minor reforming of the metal shaft that the flag rides on fixes this issue.

Original Detection Flag Toshiba.JPG


On the Kyocera it is a J9000 code. After watching the flag drop following the last original leaving the tray, you may see the flag bounce, triggering the photointerrupter twice. These flags are gravity operated, and I've heard of techs adding weight to the flag. Personally I added a very very weak torsion spring. I wasn't concerned about how fast the flag returned, just that it did not bounce. There was not a convenient place to position the spring end, so I carved a small "V" shaped groove in the cover, and placed a spot of cyanoacetate on the contact point.

J9000_1.JPGJ9000_2.JPG

=^..^=

[Don N.]

Re: DF621 on Bizhub 223, 283, 363, 423 jam code 66-02

Black Cat4866- I'm looking at how & where I can add a spring also. Weight didn't help. We are on top of placing shim washers on units that the flag may hit the side of the valley. I will post results after giving field trials a week or two. Shop tests just don't seem to be as accurate as weeks in the field.

[blackcat4866]

Re: DF621 on Bizhub 223, 283, 363, 423 jam code 66-02

It was a third or fourth call in which I was amazingly lucky enough to actually see the flag bounce on the Kyocera. The previous techs had seen no symptoms. It had happened three times in a row for me. The thing that clued me was when I placed only one original, and the MFP told me to load 2nd original again. Clearly there was no second original, but the machine thought there was. This DF would function with the outer top cover off, so it was easy to view the flag.

The Toshiba would not function with the top door off, but by then I kinda knew where to look for the original detection sensor flag.

Good luck. =^..^=

[Don N.]

Re: DF621 on Bizhub 223, 283, 363, 423 jam code 66-02

I can't easily add a spring, but found a half fix by lowering the angle of the sensor to make the flag have to bounce higher to think another original exists. Now I have the problem of it always leaving one sheet. I'm not done yet, but it's looking like it's coming down to a warped lid. All I have to do is press down and it works perfect. That lowers the flag to a position where it's angled and if it were to hit the shaft at that spot, it doesn't bounce and it reads paper correctly down to and including the last sheet.
Here's two videos in slo-mo. Wait for paper to stop at registration roller, so far so good... after the paper is gone, when flag falls against the shaft, if it bounces too much, it causes a re-feed. The only diff between these two videos is weight on the lid, lowering the flag, making the flag hit the metal shaft at the sweet (bent) spot causing minimal bounce.

This is with weight, minimal bounce: https://goo.gl/photos/8t5wos7eANJcPpLVA

This is with a felt pad trying to limit bounce, but actually bounced worse, causing the symptom my customers report: https://goo.gl/photos/ZeDLqw8jrTvEXrH49

[blackcat4866]

Re: DF621 on Bizhub 223, 283, 363, 423 jam code 66-02

The video tells the whole story. I could have told you that a pad of any sort would make it worse. You might try a weak magnet (like a refrigerator magnet). The flag will cling to the pickup shaft, damping the bounce. =^..^=

[JR2ALTA]

Re: DF621 on Bizhub 223, 283, 363, 423 jam code 66-02

Doesn't the Bizhub 200 series have a detect flag-spring you could order of steal off a parts machine?

[Don N.]

Re: DF621 on Bizhub 223, 283, 363, 423 jam code 66-02

A spring won't fit. I also noticed the flag is high enough due to the warped cover, that it lets a piece (or several) get underneath of it. Pressing down lets the flag hit at the bend and not bounce. The bounce causes it to detect no paper, or not detect the last sheet. I'm placing about 40 lbs on top of all DF621's in the shop all weekend to see if they will flatten out. Then I will swap any feeders in the field that have 66-02 codes and good tires, and especially any where the customer notices "that sound" after the last page has exited and it tries to feed nothing.
If weight alone won't un-warp them, I'll treat them to some heat & weight. The darn left cover ass'y A143PP9N02 is about $200 cost, and you get to re-mount all sensors plus about 20 other parts and re-thread the harness....

[Don N.]

Re: DF621 on Bizhub 223, 283, 363, 423 jam code 66-02

The video tells the whole story. I could have told you that a pad of any sort would make it worse. You might try a weak magnet (like a refrigerator magnet). The flag will cling to the pickup shaft, damping the bounce. =^..^=

Your suggestions continue to impress me, but see comment below.

[Don N.]

Re: DF621 on Bizhub 223, 283, 363, 423 jam code 66-02

Placing about 20-30 lbs weight on top of the DF621 left cover (lid) for a week has reduced the warp on each cover in our shop from 24~26 mm to 23~24 mm measured from the center of the doc tray to the bottom edge of the lid. Several days later they have not warped back up more than .5 mm. So I'll swap units in the field and see how long that lasts. Any more than 24 mm may cause some switch bounce and feeding of a final original that does not exist.