bizhub 658e with PC-415, J9901 and J20-02

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  • blackcat4866
    Master Of The Obvious

    Site Contributor
    10,000+ Posts
    • Jul 2007
    • 22703
    #1

    bizhub 658e with PC-415, J9901 and J20-02

    This machine has only 29K on it, most of it coming from tray #3. It started out with a machine-gun sound I quickly identified as a timing belt jumping. On the back frame of the PC-415 there are two timing belts 103mm, 1mm pitch, 4mm wide. The belt to the paper pickup drive is jumping and obviously looser than the other identical belt, though swapping belts did not help.

    It's almost the same design as the PC410, PC110, and PC120, the main difference being that exact belt and pulley combination. I've ordered the original belt (A2XM 6320 00).

    If it still jumps, I'm considering a downgrade to the PC410 motor (A2XM M100 00), belt (A2XM 5927 00), and pulley (A2XM 5921 00) combination, based on the theory that the PC-410 belt may be 1.5mm pitch and less likely to jump.

    I tried to MacGuyver a belt tensioner, but could not achieve enough tension to stop the teeth jumping.

    The 654e series had a built in LCT with a gear drive (no belts). Only the 454e and 554e used the PC-410 LCT.

    Has anyone seen this? =^..^=
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=
    Tags: a2xm, belt, belts, timing
    • Copier Addict
      Aging Tech

      Site Contributor
      10,000+ Posts
      • Jul 2013
      • 13055
      #2
      Re: bizhub 658e with PC-415, J9901 and J20-02

      Originally posted by blackcat4866
      This machine has only 29K on it, most of it coming from tray #3. It started out with a machine-gun sound I quickly identified as a timing belt jumping. On the back frame of the PC-415 there are two timing belts 103mm, 1mm pitch, 4mm wide. The belt to the paper pickup drive is jumping and obviously looser than the other identical belt, though swapping belts did not help.

      It's almost the same design as the PC410, PC110, and PC120, the main difference being that exact belt and pulley combination. I've ordered the original belt (A2XM 6320 00).

      If it still jumps, I'm considering a downgrade to the PC410 motor (A2XM M100 00), belt (A2XM 5927 00), and pulley (A2XM 5921 00) combination, based on the theory that the PC-410 belt may be 1.5mm pitch and less likely to jump.

      I tried to MacGuyver a belt tensioner, but could not achieve enough tension to stop the teeth jumping.

      The 654e series had a built in LCT with a gear drive (no belts). Only the 454e and 554e used the PC-410 LCT.

      Has anyone seen this? =^..^=
      I haven't seen this on that specific machine, but I have seen similar issues where the housing around one of the bushings cracks and allows the shaft to move which loosens the belt. This only applies if the bushing is sitting in a plastic housing. If it is metal please disregard this advice.

        Comment

        • greglogston
          Technician
          • Jul 2018
          • 34
          #3
          Re: bizhub 658e with PC-415, J9901 and J20-02

          Originally posted by blackcat4866
          This machine has only 29K on it, most of it coming from tray #3. It started out with a machine-gun sound I quickly identified as a timing belt jumping. On the back frame of the PC-415 there are two timing belts 103mm, 1mm pitch, 4mm wide. The belt to the paper pickup drive is jumping and obviously looser than the other identical belt, though swapping belts did not help.

          It's almost the same design as the PC410, PC110, and PC120, the main difference being that exact belt and pulley combination. I've ordered the original belt (A2XM 6320 00).

          If it still jumps, I'm considering a downgrade to the PC410 motor (A2XM M100 00), belt (A2XM 5927 00), and pulley (A2XM 5921 00) combination, based on the theory that the PC-410 belt may be 1.5mm pitch and less likely to jump.

          I tried to MacGuyver a belt tensioner, but could not achieve enough tension to stop the teeth jumping.

          The 654e series had a built in LCT with a gear drive (no belts). Only the 454e and 554e used the PC-410 LCT.

          Has anyone seen this? =^..^=
          I have only seen this once and it was because Konica sent me the wrong LCC for the model I was supposed to setup. LCC would pass a copy and jam with either of those jam codes.

            Comment

            • blackcat4866
              Master Of The Obvious

              Site Contributor
              10,000+ Posts
              • Jul 2007
              • 22703
              #4
              Re: bizhub 658e with PC-415, J9901 and J20-02

              No bushings. The belt rides a steel timing pulley on the motor shaft and the other pulley rides a post in the rear frame. No tensioners and the motor position is not adjustable, so the belt length is critical. =^..^=

              J99-01 J20-02 1.JPGJ99-01 J20-02 2.JPG
              If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
              1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
              2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
              3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
              4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
              5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

              blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                Comment

                • Synthohol
                  Certified Konica Expert

                  Site Contributor
                  5,000+ Posts
                  • Mar 2016
                  • 5463
                  #5
                  Re: bizhub 658e with PC-415, J9901 and J20-02

                  what if you gave the gear shaft a tug to the right to increase tension? justs 1mm
                  We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two.
                  The medication helps though...

                    Comment

                    • blackcat4866
                      Master Of The Obvious

                      Site Contributor
                      10,000+ Posts
                      • Jul 2007
                      • 22703
                      #6
                      Re: bizhub 658e with PC-415, J9901 and J20-02

                      Originally posted by Synthohol
                      What if you gave the gear shaft a tug to the right to increase tension? Just 1mm
                      I don't expect that will work with the adjoining gear already in contact to the right. Additionally, there's a metal plate that fits over that gear pack, which would no longer fit onto the posts.

                      However ... there's a better chance of filing out the motor mounting holes and shifting the motor to the left in the pictured view. I believe 1mm would be enough. If the new belt is unsuccessful, that will probably be the next step.

                      I can also check my miscellany of timing belts to see if I have a 102-1.0-4.0 or 101-1.0-4.0 belt I can try on there (just checked: one belt with 1.5pitch, nothing smaller, all others 2.0pitch or 4.0pitch, oh well ...).

                      Do you suppose that the mounting holes for the motor were incorrectly positioned when punched into the frame? =^..^=
                      Last edited by blackcat4866; 11-24-2018, 03:41 AM.
                      If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                      1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                      2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                      3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                      4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                      5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                      blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                        Comment

                        • larweedad
                          Technician

                          50+ Posts
                          • Jan 2010
                          • 79
                          #7
                          Re: bizhub 658e with PC-415, J9901 and J20-02

                          I had 2 PC 415 do the noise. Dsm came down and we shoved feed motor over to tighten belt tension. waiting to see if it comes back. The first one km traded me out. When I called the second one, km said we only had this happen one other time. It was my first call. Was wondering if you put a washer between motor and frame would help. 1 on the right side screw.

                          Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

                            Comment

                            • blackcat4866
                              Master Of The Obvious

                              Site Contributor
                              10,000+ Posts
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 22703
                              #8
                              Re: bizhub 658e with PC-415, J9901 and J20-02

                              Success!

                              I ordered two belts, installed them, ... no change, still jumping. Then I slotted the mounting holes for the feed motor (about 1mm each way). Then I could tension the belt properly. Note how the circular recess in the motor mounting plate is no longer centered in the punchout in the frame.

                              PC415 feed motor mount.JPGPC415 Resulting feed belt tension.JPG

                              This is the part where I became confused (and bonus, ripped out the back of my pants). I could still hear a belt jumping, but it sounded different somehow. Eventually I put a finger on the back of the each motor and identified the vibration coming from the vertical path motor. I did the same trick at the vertical path motor, that resolved it. Both belts were jumping.

                              PC415 vertical path motor mount.JPG

                              I can only think that whomever is manufacturing these belts is letting their quality control slip, and they are microscopically too long. I doubt that the punchouts in the frame or the all the posts were mounted in the wrong place ... on both feed and vertical path motors.

                              If/when I see this again I'll try tensioning the original belts to see if the original belts will still work. I suspect that will work. Thanks for all your opinions. =^..^=
                              If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                              1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                              2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                              3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                              4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                              5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                              blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                Comment

                                • blackcat4866
                                  Master Of The Obvious

                                  Site Contributor
                                  10,000+ Posts
                                  • Jul 2007
                                  • 22703
                                  #9
                                  Re: bizhub 658e with PC-415, J9901 and J20-02

                                  Second machine: bizhub 658e
                                  A fellow tech took this one. Based on the pix, he filed out the mounting holes less than 1mm, and had no problem using the original belts. The belts tensioned nicely. =^..^=
                                  If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                  1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                  2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                  3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                  4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                  5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                  blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                    Comment

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