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Re: J-7229/J-7217/J-7216 & Both Sides Adjustment
The first thing I usually do is clean all the paper path rollers with rubber cleaner and use a scotch brite to get the glaze
from gloss paper off.
I have run into that jam in the finisher before and found that sometimes the sensor does not get actuated because of the foam
rollers being worn. I would change them first. I have had to pull that whole paper exit assembly out of the main frame and check that for anything
out of place. And check the input rollers in the finisher also.
The input rollers to the registration unit sometimes lose drive because the springs on the idler rollers pull the plate up. Bend it back
on service calls. Just push it down on the outside edges. If the paper is not getting damaged it is probably a timing issue.
Hope that helps
DR -
Re: J-7229/J-7217/J-7216 & Both Sides Adjustment
does it jam with the finisher removed? does it jame to the sub tray on the finisher?
do you run alot of heavy stock? we tend to see the exit grit roller and decurling roller going early because of 12PT card stock.
was the registration rollers replaced at 2.5 million?
would clean the drive rollers, and registration rollers...
RETEST...Comment
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Re: J-7229/J-7217/J-7216 & Both Sides Adjustment
Thank you for replying.
Like I said in my first post, the problem is now gone. The jamming was only present when I set the paper to exit from the main tray of the finisher. The exact same stock would run fine through the sub tray but would jam when exiting from the main tray, so I don't think it has anything to do with the decurling roller. What caused the jamming is that the thing that I've highlighted in this picture: Imgur: The magic of the Internet that has two white hard plastic rollers, it wouldn't push down on the paper exiting the finisher so that the foam rollers would push the paper out.
The only thing I did was just move it up and down just out of curiosity, and then after trying again, it worked! It pushed down on the paper as it should and then the foam paper exit rollers were able to grip the paper and push it out. I ran the last 100 sheets of the job that I was printing through the main tray after this without a single jam occuring. However, I will be changing the both the paper exit and intermediate conveyance foam rollers of the finisher, because they are obviously way past their 200,000 replacement cycle.
By rubber cleaner do you mean a degreaser? I don't think that stores here sell "rubber cleaner", or if they do, they sell it under a different commercial name. Would IPA be a suitable replacement?
And for cleaning rollers in general... You use scotch brite + the solvent that you mentioned for the hard plastic ones and then for the soft rubber ones just the solvent that you mentioned with a e.g. a paper towel?
I am not entirely familiar with the registration part of this machine, as I haven't touched it before. We only have a couple thousand impressions on it so far... You mean this plate, right? Imgur: The magic of the Internet
Sorry but I need a little help here.
By "registration rollers" do you mean P/N: 65LAR70700? I doubt that this was changed on time, judging by some other glaring omissions by the techs that were maintaining it prior to me, but I haven't taken a look at it myself.
And by "drive rollers" do you mean P/N: A03UR73300? The one responsible for driving the transfer belt? Can you help me locate it?
Finally, does the procedure highlighted here (c6500 duplex registration problem) by Stirton.M apply to my case?
Happy new year to you both.Comment
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Re: J-7229/J-7217/J-7216 & Both Sides Adjustment
exit rollers, both sponge and drive would be my first replacement after good cleaning...
2+ mil on the smaller finisher is a good bit. would also watch for wear in that exit flag.Comment
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Re: J-7229/J-7217/J-7216 & Both Sides Adjustment
The rubber cleaner I use is rubber rejuvenator. I get mine from precisionroller.com.
Alcohol will sometimes harden rubber. For the white hard plastic alcohol works fine or
just use the scotch brite pad.
Apply the rejuvenator to a cloth for the rubber drive rollers then go over them with the scotch brite
and one more time with the cloth. That usually works for me.
The plate I speak of is on the very right side where paper from the bypass and other trays enter the path to the registration.
Be sure and clean the duplex rubber rollers also. They are a pain. The registration drive rollers are under the white idler rollers.
I forget what the station number is but the paper clearing panel opens to the left and is to the right of the transfer roller.
Also while you are looking at the duplex if any of the developers are leaking it can collect in the duplex path as well. This will
embed in the rollers. I have found that it will collect above the duplex path and spill out a little at a time.
Generally I would use denatured alcohol. Rubbing alcohol has mineral oil in it and is good for sore muscles. Some oils are not
good for rubber and may make them to soft.
HTH
DRComment
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Re: J-7229/J-7217/J-7216 & Both Sides Adjustment
I agree with methogod,
Cleaning the rollers is a good quick fix and will last for a while but replacement is best.
DRComment
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Re: J-7229/J-7217/J-7216 & Both Sides Adjustment
Hi,
I will be cleaning the rollers on the registration section as well as the ADU, try again, and report back with my results.
Just a quick question that might seem a bit naive; do the hard plastic idler rollers need to be replaced? You guys are referring to the rubber registration rollers, correct?
Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using TapatalkComment
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Re: J-7229/J-7217/J-7216 & Both Sides Adjustment
The rubber rollers are generally the drive rollers in this machine. I seldom replace the hard white idlers if they spin easily. Sometimes I will use a 2" wide piece
of 20lb paper and feed it between the drive and Idler rollers and pull it against the paper travel to test the grippyness ( just made that up) of the drive roller.
be sure and put a piece under each roller and test for even pressure. Figure out away to keep the rollers from turning while pulling the paper. Don't hold the roller
or you may induce pressure.
If they are not the same or at least close you get some skew of the paper while it travels.
And yes the registration drive rollers are the rubber ones.
Good luck
DR
Comment
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Re: J-7229/J-7217/J-7216 & Both Sides Adjustment
I printed the job that I was printing before and did a comparison. It's pretty much the same. I cleaned all the ADU and registration rollers (idlers with some IPA and took the glaze off as you suggested with scotch brite, some of them were really dirty and the rubber ones with some WD-40 and then wiped the excess off), did FD-Mag adj, CD-Mag adj and both came within spec, no changes needed. I also bent the plate inwards, as per your suggestion.The rubber rollers are generally the drive rollers in this machine. I seldom replace the hard white idlers if they spin easily. Sometimes I will use a 2" wide piece
of 20lb paper and feed it between the drive and Idler rollers and pull it against the paper travel to test the grippyness ( just made that up) of the drive roller.
be sure and put a piece under each roller and test for even pressure. Figure out away to keep the rollers from turning while pulling the paper. Don't hold the roller
or you may induce pressure.
If they are not the same or at least close you get some skew of the paper while it travels.
And yes the registration drive rollers are the rubber ones.
Good luck
DR
I did the chart adjustment again for the bypass tray, and then tried printing two rectangles, one on each side of the paper, both dead center, measuring at 190x277mm on a A4 sheet, then traced the second side with a blue pen, and well, it's awful. I've scanned it and attached it, so you can see what I am talking about.
Finally, while digging through some older threads on paper skew, someone mentioned that the ADU sagging could be causing this. The ADU on this machine is sagging as well when pulled out. Could this have any effect?
Any other ideas that I should try?
Thanks.
20200103110513915.pdfComment
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Re: J-7229/J-7217/J-7216 & Both Sides Adjustment
In the future when talking about paper feed problems be sure to include an indication of the lead edge and/or paper feed direction.
Is it better than it was? If so then try using the user adjustments for registration. This is not an offset press and they may always be some
error.
Are these pages being feed through the doc fdr, put on the glass or sent from a computer. Obviously if being fed from doc feeder or placed
on the glass you may see more error.
The top to bottom error may be adjusted with mechanical adjustments and/or software.
If you have a sag in the duplex tray, (I've never dealt with that) but would imagine that one would need to lift it up a bit and tighten the rails
that it slides on. Other wise the rails may need to be replaced. What is the overall mileage on this unit? The 6500 has been out there for
a while and you may see some hard to solve problems.
DRComment
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Re: J-7229/J-7217/J-7216 & Both Sides Adjustment
I appreciate I'm rather late to the party - as usual
Happy New Year to you all.
Problem 1: I appreciate it's resolved, for now. However in case it does return...
We've had exit issues on a couple of our finishers. In two cases it was caused by the paper exit solenoid (SD4), one needed adjusting, you'll notice that the assay has slotted screw holes, the second the solenoid had failed.
We have also had to clean and lubricate the drive gears and shafts that operate the Paper exit slide stay.
FS607 paper exit.jpg
Problem 2: This is a common problem, and as already mentioned, these are not offset presses, so the position of the paper isn't consistent.
There are many factors that cause the paper and the image to move, even the brand of paper as the fibres in cause movement as the paper passes through due to friction - hence keeping rollers clean.
Command Workstation under the finishing tab has the option to move the front and back image relative to each other, but this cannot deal with skew.
The other option - which I don't think has been mentioned - is under the [both sides] adjustment you have an option called [chart adjustment]. I have used this on a c6501 that wasn't lining up, although it's not exact as you need to manually measure the chart to 0.1mm.
What we do on some stock is rather than duplexing on the machine, work and turn the job, run one side then run the other. In many cases this is actually faster as you don't loose the time the machines takes to reverse the paper.
If you have the LU202 installed, we find that this duplexes better than the bypass tray, in fact we only use the bypass for heavy boards (350/400gsm - yes I know the machine isn't designed for this...but if we break it we fix it) and envelopes, the LU202 deals with the rest.
To state the obvious paper orientation also makes a difference, we nearly always run a job short edge as the leading edge.
This issue is why the later machines scan registration marks and in theory can automatically adjust for skew and image movement etc.
If you find a better way, do post up what you did, I'd certainly be interested
Thanks
MarkComment
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Re: J-7229/J-7217/J-7216 & Both Sides Adjustment
I finally found some time to work on this problem a little bit more. After some head scratching and some trial and error, I've finally got it to duplex within the 1mm tolerance.
The chart adjustment basically screwed up completely the image zoom and on a job that I printed just after I finished doing the chart adjustment, the image had shifted too much to the left, causing issues. I followed the instructions on the KM website for this, so I am not exactly sure as to what went wrong. I reseted everything and just did a simple tray alignment from CWS. It's pretty much perfect now for my needs, and as Mark said, it's easier to just flip and print on the other side + use image shift in CWS in order to get results better than this, and that's what we have been doing actually. I just needed to get it to get the alignment decent enough so when I had to photocopy something for a customer and then print it on both sides of the paper, the image would be positioned somewhat correctly instead of miles apart from where it should have been. The scrubbing on the ADU rollers seemed to help a lot, so I have to thank DR for his tip.
Our LU-202 is currently out of commision, all of its 6 lifting wires broke, and along with them, some of its pulleys, so unfortunately we're stuck with using the bypass tray for anything that isn't plain photocopy paper (not to mention that it's going to be a pain to repair).
Isn't this applicable for one of the larger saddle-stitch finishers and not for the FS-607, which came with the basic config for this machine? I can't remember seeing a solenoid like this inside the finisher.
The finisher issue popped up once more today while printing one of the alignment pages, but the new rollers haven't arrived yet, so I can't rule out anything for now. We'll have to wait and see.
Thank you for your help.Comment
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Re: J-7229/J-7217/J-7216 & Both Sides Adjustment
Finally for the ADU sag. Do I have to take off the fuser + the ADU and tighten the screws that attach the rails to the main body, or is there an easier way to do this?Comment
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J-7229/J-7217/J-7216 & Both Sides Adjustment
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