Bizhub 364e - clicking/knocking noise at idle

[copyman]

Re: Bizhub 364e - clicking/knocking noise at idle

So I don't know jack about the insides of fusing units, but lack of knowledge never stopped me before... lol
I pulled the fuser, and popped off a few of the covers, just enough to get a decent look at the rollers. They looked okay, as best as I can tell (not sure what a 'healthy' roller should look like), but I noticed a little of what I'll call debris on the rollers and falling out of the unit if I turned it over and gently shook. It almost looked like...ash? It was similar in size to very coarse black pepper, but more of a flaky shape, dark gray or black mostly, and sorta 'crunchy' in texture.
I blew it all off with canned air and oiled the bearings as best as I could without tearing apart the assembly too far, since I had no confidence of getting it back in place tonight. Besides, these appear to be sealed bearings, no?
Anyway, I put everything back together, and it's definitely much quieter. I still hear the knocking noise now and then, but it's easy to ignore for now.
I think I'll keep an eye out for a decent rebuild kit and try my hand on that one of these days. If I could identify just the bearings, I'd be happy to try just those, but without an actual part number or bearing spec, I'd have to tear the whole thing apart, and at that point I might as well rebuild the unit if the machine will be down waiting for parts anyway.
If anyone finds a reputable kit for the Bizhub 364e (not C364e, I've made that mistake before), I'd appreciate a link. I'm coming up goose eggs on my searches.
Thanks for the help guys. As always, I'd be totally lost in this machine without your expert guidance!

Again all the parts to rebuild fuser are on Copylite website. Just use the "C"364 fuser parts.

With under 300k you can get by with the bearings. Like I posted previously you do not need to disassemble the whole fuser to replace bearings. If you let the bearings go they will continue to eat away at the roller shafts then you will have to disassemble and replace the rollers. ANY good tech should be able to replace the bearings in under 30 mins. 2 black side covers and metal plates to access the bearings.

By the way fusers make that noise either from high page count but more often from age. Don't forget that fuser is constantly moving to prevent flat spots at idle until it goes to sleep.

[Elmojo]

Re: Bizhub 364e - clicking/knocking noise at idle

From what you described, your bearing is fallin apart. That's where the dust comes from. In my cases the front one was allways the problem. That were the fusers between 400-500k so never bother to replace the bearing itselt.

That makes sense, except that my fuser is less than half life by clicks. It also feels pretty smooth when manually rotated, but I don't know if it's something I'd feel or not.
I'd love to try replacing just the bearings first, if I could confirm which ones I need to order.
Anyone know how to find out without tearing apart the whole fuser assembly? Pretty please?

[Elmojo]

Re: Bizhub 364e - clicking/knocking noise at idle

Again all the parts to rebuild fuser are on Copylite website. Just use the "C"364 fuser parts.

Ah, so the "C" parts are the same? That, I can do!
Appears to be this bearing, right?
Huh, now I see the 364e included in the list of compatible models, cool.
I wonder why it didn't show up when I searched before. Oh well.

EDIT: So it looks like I'm not going to be able to register at Copylite, since I'm just a freelance tech, not an actual dealer. Does anyone know another place I can find those bearings? I've looked round online for the 688Z bearings, but I'm not seeing the ones with the notched flange.

EDIT2: I did find these on Amazon, but I'm not sure if the flange dimensions are correct, or if the fact that they don't have the notch is critical. Thoughts?

[copyman]

Re: Bizhub 364e - clicking/knocking noise at idle

Awesome!
So the 'belt pressure roller' you mention, is that what they call the lower roller on most sites? I could look that up in the SM, but I'm FAR too lazy for all that.
I'm checking Copylite, and I don't see my exact model, but would it be this one maybe?

This is the belt pressure roller: Copylite - Aftermarket, Compatible, and OEM Copier Supplies and Products

Also I've seen the LFR shafts wear. The LFR also uses the same bearings.

Just showing you what the belt pressure roller look likes. Like I posted you should only need the bearings

[copyman]

Re: Bizhub 364e - clicking/knocking noise at idle

Ah, so the "C" parts are the same? That, I can do!
Appears to be this bearing, right?
Huh, now I see the 364e included in the list of compatible models, cool.
I wonder why it didn't show up when I searched before. Oh well.

EDIT: So it looks like I'm not going to be able to register at Copylite, since I'm just a freelance tech, not an actual dealer. Does anyone know another place I can find those bearings? I've looked round online for the 688Z bearings, but I'm not seeing the ones with the notched flange.

Yes they are the correct bearings. Not sure why copylite doesn't show the same parts for the B&W models. They are same "exact" fusers!
Yes as long as you are a business with a business name you can buy from copylite. If you have any issues PM me. I will put you in touch with my copylite rep.

I would get 4 bearing, replace the 2 belt pressure roller bearings & 2 LFR bearings while you have it apart. The noise will be gone for good!

[Elmojo]

Re: Bizhub 364e - clicking/knocking noise at idle

Yes they are the correct bearings. Not sure why copylite doesn't show the same parts for the B&W models. They are same "exact" fusers!
Yes as long as you are a business with a business name you can buy from copylite. If you have any issues PM me. I will put you in touch with my copylite rep.

I would get 4 bearing, replace the 2 belt pressure roller bearings & 2 LFR bearings while you have it apart. The noise will be gone for good!

Awesome, thanks. I'm waiting to hear back from Copylite about approving my registration. If they give me any lip, I may get in touch with you.

Thanks for the info from everyone! I'm pretty sure I can do this now.
I had the side covers off last night, and I actually found a really decent YT video from a Chinese aftermarket company that shows the disassembly steps for a similar unit, so that's nice to have for a reference.

I'm sure all you pros know this, but in case any newbs like me stumble across this in the future, you can skip the steps in the Svc manual about removing the door stops. The fusing unit comes out just fine with those in place if you're careful.
Anything to save a few minutes, and have a couple less parts to lose, eh?

[allan]

Re: Bizhub 364e - clicking/knocking noise at idle

you local fastener shop should have those bearings for a lot cheaper.

[Elmojo]

Re: Bizhub 364e - clicking/knocking noise at idle

you local fastener shop should have those bearings for a lot cheaper.

I would love to buy them locally, I just can't seem to get a positive ID on the exact bearing I need. I know it's a 688Z, but most of the ones I find aren't flanged, which this application seems to require. I also notice that the ones sold by Copylite have a notch in the flange. I haven't had the fuser torn down to that point, so I can't say if that notch is required or not, but I assume it is.
If you have a particular link or item number or something that would help me ID the exact bearing required, I'd be very grateful.

[DK-tech]

Re: Bizhub 364e - clicking/knocking noise at idle

Well, the title says most of it.
This video will hopefully explain it better than I could try to describe.
The video quality is intentionally horrible, since I was just trying to capture the sound.
It's not super loud, so you might have to turn up your volume a bit.
Anyone recognize that sound?
Please tell me it's not something expensive.
The machine seems to be running perfectly, it just makes that really annoying noise until it times out and does to sleep.

Speaking of sleep... where the heck is that setting? I recall seeing it during my initial setup, but I can't seem to find the the place to edit the sleep time-out any more. I'd like to shorten it, since I don't print or copy all that often during the day.

Thanks!
-E

The bearings in the fuser goes bad and then makes that clicking sound. Change the fuser.

[allan]

Re: Bizhub 364e - clicking/knocking noise at idle

I would love to buy them locally, I just can't seem to get a positive ID on the exact bearing I need. I know it's a 688Z, but most of the ones I find aren't flanged, which this application seems to require. I also notice that the ones sold by Copylite have a notch in the flange. I haven't had the fuser torn down to that point, so I can't say if that notch is required or not, but I assume it is.
If you have a particular link or item number or something that would help me ID the exact bearing required, I'd be very grateful.

There is a groove in the bearing. The flange is a snap ring that gets snapped into the groove. The gap does not serve a purpose.

[Elmojo]

Re: Bizhub 364e - clicking/knocking noise at idle

There is a groove in the bearing. The flange is a snap ring that gets snapped into the groove. The gap does not serve a purpose.

Ok, now I'm really confused.
I certainly don't mean to disagree with the voice of wisdom, since I know you've done a ton of these, but the image of the bearings on the Copylite site (see below) doesn't appear to show a snap ring.
At least, I've never seen one with no holes for the pliers. How would you remove the ring?
Also, I've found that 688Z bearing elsewhere, and none of them seem to have a groove for a snap ring.
All this makes me think it's not such a common bearing, and I need to find that specific part, but I can't get Copylite to return my call, so I'm kinda stuck. :/
If I'm off base here, PLEASE correct me.
bearings.jpg

[Samanator]

[copyman]

Re: Bizhub 364e - clicking/knocking noise at idle

I’m just going to throw this out there for some to think about in regard to fusers prematurely going out.


Over the last maybe 15 years, I have worked for a few different companies and on different manufactures machines. I have noticed on just about all the machines I encounter with prematurely fuser failure have low power and sleep settings were always maxed out. That max setting is usually 240 minutes on just about all machines I have encounter.


IMHO that means if the last person touched the machine just before closing, the machine just sat there and baked for the next four hours before going into some kind of shut down. I think even with magnetic induction the machine wants to keep the roller or belt at a certain temp. Also, the machine is going to be constantly turning the fuser over that period of time. Even if it’s not heating it, it's cycling, it’s moving for no real reason at all. That can’t be good.


I have always set the machines under my care to 60 minuet sleep / 90 minute low power or 90/120 and never had a customer complain that the machine turns off all the time. I have a lot less fuser problems than some I talk with. The main exception is the early Kyocera TA xxx2 series fusers that to me were junk. To me, Konica makes one of the best fusers out there. When I worked for a Konica dealer was when I really noticed prematurely fuser failure on machines set to a 240-minuet shutdown time.


Granted, this is my opinion and maybe some food for thought.

Good points and make sense. The newer models including the model in this post sleep mode max is 60 mins. Think last 240 min model was the C220 series.

Problem is there were issues with the "4" series coming out of sleep mode so I have all the "4" series sleep modes turned off. It goes into power save at the Max 60 mins but never sleep. With this setting haven't noticed any fusers crapping out early but all will eventually get the noise.

[tsbservice]

Re: Bizhub 364e - clicking/knocking noise at idle

I’m just going to throw this out there for some to think about in regard to fusers prematurely going out.


Over the last maybe 15 years, I have worked for a few different companies and on different manufactures machines. I have noticed on just about all the machines I encounter with prematurely fuser failure have low power and sleep settings were always maxed out. That max setting is usually 240 minutes on just about all machines I have encounter.


IMHO that means if the last person touched the machine just before closing, the machine just sat there and baked for the next four hours before going into some kind of shut down. I think even with magnetic induction the machine wants to keep the roller or belt at a certain temp. Also, the machine is going to be constantly turning the fuser over that period of time. Even if it’s not heating it, it's cycling, it’s moving for no real reason at all. That can’t be good.


I have always set the machines under my care to 60 minuet sleep / 90 minute low power or 90/120 and never had a customer complain that the machine turns off all the time. I have a lot less fuser problems than some I talk with. The main exception is the early Kyocera TA xxx2 series fusers that to me were junk. To me, Konica makes one of the best fusers out there. When I worked for a Konica dealer was when I really noticed prematurely fuser failure on machines set to a 240-minuet shutdown time.


Granted, this is my opinion and maybe some food for thought.

Your opinions are appreciated here I believe by many.

In that case you're completely right I set mine machines to enter sleep/low power even at 15-20 minutes. That said this is not only one single cause for fusers go out prematurely.
Yes this is main reason but there are few others.

Namely
- stock(very important)
- temperature/humidity/dust in room
- how they print(1000*1 isn't equal 1000 you know)
- other parts life(i.e. failed paper dust remover can contribute to this)
- coverage(low is better), etc.

Some times ago on Toshiba I tend to lower fuser temp by 5-10 degrees and leave it that for month or two at client to see how it goes never had problems with unfused toner on normal media and temperature/humidity. Now with most long life KonMin fusers it's hard to analyze/test if lowering fuser temperature will prolong fusers life but I suspect the same outcome.

[allan]

Re: Bizhub 364e - clicking/knocking noise at idle

Ok, now I'm really confused.
I certainly don't mean to disagree with the voice of wisdom, since I know you've done a ton of these, but the image of the bearings on the Copylite site (see below) doesn't appear to show a snap ring.
At least, I've never seen one with no holes for the pliers. How would you remove the ring?
Also, I've found that 688Z bearing elsewhere, and none of them seem to have a groove for a snap ring.
All this makes me think it's not such a common bearing, and I need to find that specific part, but I can't get Copylite to return my call, so I'm kinda stuck. :/
If I'm off base here, PLEASE correct me.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]48922[/ATTACH]

You can remove the flange. Screwdriver(s) The gap in the ring gives it away.
Yes you need that exact one. The flange is offset from the edge. Others are flush with it.
They are super common on the machines.