C451 thick paper problems

[Kmdurrin]

I have a customer who uses their C451 for printing booklets/customer information fliers. They are using a heavy card stock (within the machines listed paper types), and will only run this paper from their 1500 sheet tray. The problem is this: I am having to replace the tray feed rollers about every 5000 to 8000 copies. Looks like the paper is coming up to the feed system with the lead paper edge in the center of the feed roller. The paper will then start to chip away at the rollers until they no longer function, then I get the dreaded "machine keeps jamming" call. Any ideas on how to get the paper to move a little better out of the tray?

PS - I know that thicker paper is supposed to be run out of the bypass tray on this model, but the customer is dead set on running it all out of the machines standard paper tray (because the salesman said she could).

[Mr Spock]

What type of paper? what is the weight? Cardstock can be different things for different people. If they refuse to use it as the user guide specifies then that is misuse of the copier and all parts and labor are billable. If the sales department wants to pay then let them but I would bill them. If it was the bypass then the rollers would be covered. Also if they do not choose the correct thickness then the color may not be correct either.

[graphshooter]

you could place the paper feed assist plate p/n:A00J P001##

[methogod]

Thick 1-3 is confusing as hell

I have seen this before as well, even with paper as "normal" as 28 lb laser paper, which will print well for 500 prints, then 1 or 2 bad ones, then back to printing well.

Solution for this is to select thick 1, and print from tray 1, either SEF or LEF, it shouldnt matter.

If they are dead set on using the larger trays, I would recomend selling them the LCT, which will allow up to THICK3 from it, should fix alot of issues, the biggest of all is that THICK3 (at least with the fiery) will print slightly slower than normal paper, as it slows down through the fuser.

LCT should only cost (on ebay or second hand) around 250 bucks.

You can upsell it for 999.00 or even more.

[emujo]

Replace the Pick up roller with the one from the Bizhub 750/751. It will need to be shaved lengthwise a few mm, but it fits perfectly on the shaft and won't need to be replaced anytime soon. Looks like a 4x4 truck tire!!!

[Kenny]

They have just relesed a fix for this problem and it works very well so far ! if its still causing you a problem let me know and i will get one of my engineers to email the parts we changed and also the new part numbers

Cheers

dac@copiercompany.co.uk

[methogod]

C451 Thick problems (besides feeding)

Seems that no matter what setting (Thick 1 up to Thick3), both using the internal control and fiery) anything thicker than 60lb gloss laser, will show lines(in the direction of the paper flow), being told its fuser lines, so i paid $450 and replaced the fuser, and after around 70K, again their back, if i have keep replacing the fuser this is not the right machine for my client.

He keeps asking for a c6500 or c6501, I tell him I can promise it wont be any different, I myself am not trained on the production color machine's, but one of my tech are and he can't be sure either.

My question is if i do get them a c6500, will the same issue occur? As it's going in a "print shop" and my client keeps comparing the quality to a XEROX DOC250 that he has access to, my hands seem tied. HE HAS CLIENTS TO ANSWER TO, AND I ANSWER TO HIM - AS THE ACCOUNT IS HIGH VOLUME. i feel obligated to go out of my way to get this working

I want to get the c451 to work as KM says it can, and I have seen it go 300K without issues at ther clients, but they use heavy paper much less.

any advise?

all paper used is within spec, feed from tray 1 or the bypass. Also there are minor issues with the fiery, as the internal control will auto duplex upto thick 3 from tray 1 and the bypass, but the fiery won't.

I wonder if there is fiery firmware is needed to be updated, I need to fix that issue as well.

any advise will be helpful....

thanks as always...

[Stirton.M]

Seems that no matter what setting (Thick 1 up to Thick3), both using the internal control and fiery) anything thicker than 60lb gloss laser, will show lines(in the direction of the paper flow), being told its fuser lines, so i paid $450 and replaced the fuser, and after around 70K, again their back, if i have keep replacing the fuser this is not the right machine for my client.

He keeps asking for a c6500 or c6501, I tell him I can promise it wont be any different, I myself am not trained on the production color machine's, but one of my tech are and he can't be sure either.

My question is if i do get them a c6500, will the same issue occur? As it's going in a "print shop" and my client keeps comparing the quality to a XEROX DOC250 that he has access to, my hands seem tied. HE HAS CLIENTS TO ANSWER TO, AND I ANSWER TO HIM - AS THE ACCOUNT IS HIGH VOLUME. i feel obligated to go out of my way to get this working

I want to get the c451 to work as KM says it can, and I have seen it go 300K without issues at ther clients, but they use heavy paper much less.

any advise?

all paper used is within spec, feed from tray 1 or the bypass. Also there are minor issues with the fiery, as the internal control will auto duplex upto thick 3 from tray 1 and the bypass, but the fiery won't.

I wonder if there is fiery firmware is needed to be updated, I need to fix that issue as well.

any advise will be helpful....

thanks as always...

Well...

Paper stock can be an issue of itself. Are you speaking about waxing marks on the image? What I mean is, you print a solid black on one of those GL stocks and you can see what look like tire tracks if you angle the sheet in light a certain way? Or are you talking about scrape lines?

As for the C6500, this machine is leaps and bounds way over the abilities of the C451, or for that matter, many levels more than the xerox. Far better image quality controls, both from a tech point of view and user point of view. You get what you pay for...the 6500 mainbody alone is worth 2 fully loaded C451s. Your support costs will be much higher based on consumable use, but customer productivity will equate to much higher click count revenue.

Replacing the fuser on a c451 is a bit extreme. Though we have seen a rash of problems with that series fuser units, much of the time it is either a damaged pressure roller or faulty bearing on the cleaning brush. The rest of the time, no real issues, regardless of paper stock used. We have these in print shop environments as well and gloss paper is pretty common.

Can you scan us a sample of your problem for further evaluation to what your problem is?

As for the machine, what is the firmware on the copier currently, and the fiery, what is the system version and what patches are currently there? Do a printout of the fiery config sheets. Usually there are 2 sheets for configuration. EFI has lately changed programming to print a third sheet "IF" any patches were applied and lists them there. Scan those for us here as well.

[methogod]

parts on fuser??

I thought the fuser was just as is, no replaceable parts?

can you provide part numbers? or are these items outside the furser.

my tech told me to just replace it.


thanks,

[Stirton.M]

I thought the fuser was just as is, no replaceable parts?

can you provide part numbers? or are these items outside the furser.

my tech told me to just replace it.


thanks,

The fuser isn't serviceable...that is, it isn't meant to be serviced. Simply replace it. However, my question wasn't about repairing the fuser or even replacing it. I wanted to clarify the problem you are seeing in yours with sample prints, then I, as well as others here, can see what your problem is and help you resolve it without replacing a fuser.

As I said, we have many of this series, C450, 550, 650 and a few of the newer generations like the 552 and 652. Fusing units on these haven't given us quality problems, only mechanical ones. I suspect your problem is somewhere else and not the fuser. But as I said, without a scanned sample, I cannot tell you more.

[methogod]

samples

https://acrobat.com/#d=INE0jnS279JT6HOD6a8vcQ

https://acrobat.com/#d=QkQqkbz2ybc0UsJ-1Ylv9Q

two samples, one at high res, and the other two compressed.

One of them is 14mb.

let me know what you think.

thanks,

[Stirton.M]

Sorry about this. For some reason I did not get a notification of your reply. Doing a search through some of my posts I found this one incomplete.

The second link you provided asks me to login to the site.

I recommend that you make use of this forum's attachments. Much much more reliable and local.

But I get the general idea what your problem is on the first page.

Note at the bottom of the page the problem is more pronounced but as you move toward the top, the problem vanishes within the blues, but anywhere there is black, the image defect is present.

In tech rep, do a halftone test on all four colours. My bet is that your black IU is failing judging from what I am viewing in your samples. It may also simply be dirt on the laser window below the IU. Use the cleaning wand on that to make sure before you pop the IU for a new one.

There is a possibility the transfer belt might be bad as well. Generally, if the surface is nice and shiny with no blemish lines, the belt is fine. If there are any blemish lines (dull lines worn into the surface), these will cause issues, though this will affect all 4 colours, not just one.

The fusing unit is certainly not likely the cause of this problem. Not sure who might have directed you to do that. Perhaps there was another issue that wasn't mentioned here?

Truth be told, there is little preventing this machine from doing high volume, even in card stock, though I would recommend the LCT as others have mentioned if they are primarily doing heavy stock of anything heavier than 203gsm, up to a maximum of 10pt. Anything thicker, there is no guarantee that this machine will do well, if at all. 6500 will handle 10pt quite well, and depending on the paper brand, some varieties of 12pt. Do not try to duplex anything above 8pt thickness. Both machines will have jamming issues because of the number of bends the paper must make in the path. If duplex is needed, split the job into separate single sided runs.

Capture.JPGCapture2.JPG

[RRodgers]

https://acrobat.com/#d=INE0jnS279JT6HOD6a8vcQ

https://acrobat.com/#d=QkQqkbz2ybc0UsJ-1Ylv9Q

two samples, one at high res, and the other two compressed.

One of them is 14mb.

let me know what you think.

thanks,

I would say Black or Cyan Dev unit.

[methogod]

Thank for the help, but when i print on regular 28lb paper, i will have 100 good prints, then one messed up one. where the black is off by a few MM or looks like it just didnt fuse to the page well.

I ordered the newer fuser as i have the orginal (the newer one ends in -22) has some fixes that the orginal didnt have. I will try to print the color test and post the results. I do print only 1 sided on 10pt and 12pt but only from tray 1, the fiery will only allow me to pull from the bypass or tray 1.

thanks...

[Stirton.M]