C6500: Recurring C-2411

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  • Stirton.M
    All things Konica Minolta

    1,000+ Posts
    • Oct 2009
    • 1804

    #1

    C6500: Recurring C-2411

    I have a C6500 machine that is going to drive me postal pretty soon.

    The short history of this problem....

    My boss went in to do some colour adjustments, customer was getting reds instead of orange. Relatively minor and simple procedure, it is something both he and I have done hundreds of times in the past. Drum potential and Gamma adjust followed by a calibration usually resolves this problem, and if not, we take further measure to replace the drum, charge wire or developer/d-unit in any given order. Most of the time, we are done in a few minutes.

    What happens after these minor adjustments is when going back out of tech rep into the user mode, the machine will throw C2411, abnormal TCR.

    After restarting the developer in the machine, the boss eventually replaced the PRCB and the problem was fixed.

    A little over a week later, same colour problem. I go in and do this adjustment, and like the boss, the machine tosses another 2411. At this point, some consulting with the boss, we make the decision to replace the dev units (they were about 400K, so the whole lot replaced) and restarted the devs. And like before, this did not resolve the problem and I replaced the PRCB again, and this fixed the problem.

    Today, this colour issue arose yet again. WIth some apprehension, I tried other ways to get the machine to properly print the job without doing the previous adjustment, but not even recalibrating the machine provided the results wanted, the colour just refused to blend correctly. So I tried yet again, drum potential and gamma adjust.

    Neither of those two adjustments have any bearing on TCR, and yet, the machine tosses another 2411.

    Some inspection in tech rep to display the TCR values, all showed 0000.

    Again I will be replacing the PRCB again in the morning.

    3 times in as many weeks, with brand new boards, this is getting a bit rediculous. My thoughts are that something else must be at fault. A talk with tech support has given me a lead on 12V supplied, though he has doubts since I am not getting any error event elsewhere, specifically the toner density sensor on the registration assembly.

    Has anyone else had this kind of game happen to them, and if so, what did you do to resolve it, aside from wasting money replacing the PRCB once every week or so?

    It should also be noted that the machine was capable of producing the correct colour in tech rep, providing the halftone values for each CMYK, yet when the job was spooled, the colour was incorrect. A preview of the job through command workstation showed the colours as expected, yet when printed, the colour was incorrect.

    For the most part, the machine was operating normally otherwise.
    "Many years ago I chased a woman for almost two years, only to discover that her tastes were exactly like mine: we both were crazy about girls."
    ---Groucho Marx


    Please do not PM me for questions related to Konica Minolta hardware.
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  • HORSE
    Trusted Tech

    100+ Posts
    • Mar 2008
    • 186

    #2
    When you push the Process unit back into the machine and lock back the long steel handles do find them hard to lock?

    I have had issues on a few different machines where the connector at the back of the process was not making a good connection and throwing a C24-11 or C24-01


    Also on the faulty PRCB have you checked all the ICPs, are any OC?
    Laughing......

    Comment

    • Stirton.M
      All things Konica Minolta

      1,000+ Posts
      • Oct 2009
      • 1804

      #3
      On one, the boss I believe found a blown ICP. The last one I did I never looked, has yet to make its round through board repair, but I asked the guys there to let me know which should be tomorrow night or the next morning when I learn about that one, but swapping that board eliminated the problem. This next one I will be looking directly at before I change it. I have a brand new board for that purpose for the just in case.

      I've had issues in the past like what you've seen with the process carriage not quite making a full connect. Generally I pull this out and reseat, which is what I did first when I re-encountered the code this afternoon.

      I cannot help but think that the machine is deliberately severing its internal connection, "V'Ger" like. I know they all have their personalities, but suicidal????
      "Many years ago I chased a woman for almost two years, only to discover that her tastes were exactly like mine: we both were crazy about girls."
      ---Groucho Marx


      Please do not PM me for questions related to Konica Minolta hardware.
      I will not answer requests or questions there.
      Please ask in the KM forum for the benefit of others to see the question and give their input.

      Comment

      • HORSE
        Trusted Tech

        100+ Posts
        • Mar 2008
        • 186

        #4
        Ok I will give you a big clue and try and make it easy for you. check the faulty PRCB ICP 15 (1000mA) for OC. If thats blown then you are looking at a dead short in the 12v from the all the TCR back to that PRCB.

        All TCR share that ICP 15.

        Good Luck with that
        Laughing......

        Comment

        • random

          #5
          You should replace the loom and connector on the process unit. The one in the machine and the one on the process unit. We have had random problems like this and it has resolved it. You can have all sorts of problems TDC failure, drum potential, colour reg problems all sorts.

          Comment

          • mgutski

            #6
            i have had one instance, where the machine would not print a good red, more orange then anything. we ended up changing the color registration assembly in the machine. we never had any codes, just poor color.

            Comment

            • HORSE
              Trusted Tech

              100+ Posts
              • Mar 2008
              • 186

              #7
              Originally posted by mgutski
              i have had one instance, where the machine would not print a good red, more orange then anything. we ended up changing the color registration assembly in the machine. we never had any codes, just poor color.
              I think you might have posted this reply in the wrong thread or you are simply confused.

              The old problem of the Reds printing Orange was caused by the 'Purple Dot' color registration assy back in late 2007 & early 2008, this was resolved by the 'M' stamped color registration assy over 2 years ago. I fail to see the connection between that problem and the OP's problem of a C-2411 code which is caused by a TCR.
              Laughing......

              Comment

              • hosman80
                Technician
                • Jun 2008
                • 38

                #8
                i had a similar problem with c-2414 codes (k tcr), and after replacing dv units, developers and prcb multiple times, found the problem to be the wire harness that connects into the dv unit, it was only pinched a little bit but it was enough to be broken inside and make faulty connection and intermittently give those codes, we fixed the harness and the code never came back.
                hope this helps.

                Comment

                • Stirton.M
                  All things Konica Minolta

                  1,000+ Posts
                  • Oct 2009
                  • 1804

                  #9
                  Originally posted by HORSE
                  Ok I will give you a big clue and try and make it easy for you. check the faulty PRCB ICP 15 (1000mA) for OC. If thats blown then you are looking at a dead short in the 12v from the all the TCR back to that PRCB.

                  All TCR share that ICP 15.

                  Good Luck with that
                  As it turns out, ICP 15 was indeed blown on the previous events, as well as this one. The second previous event an IC associated with this was also blown, according to board repair.

                  Currently the machine is operating ok. The next event, if it happens, we will be going after the harness.
                  "Many years ago I chased a woman for almost two years, only to discover that her tastes were exactly like mine: we both were crazy about girls."
                  ---Groucho Marx


                  Please do not PM me for questions related to Konica Minolta hardware.
                  I will not answer requests or questions there.
                  Please ask in the KM forum for the benefit of others to see the question and give their input.

                  Comment

                  • Stirton.M
                    All things Konica Minolta

                    1,000+ Posts
                    • Oct 2009
                    • 1804

                    #10
                    Originally posted by random
                    You should replace the loom and connector on the process unit. The one in the machine and the one on the process unit. We have had random problems like this and it has resolved it. You can have all sorts of problems TDC failure, drum potential, colour reg problems all sorts.
                    and
                    Originally posted by hosman80
                    i had a similar problem with c-2414 codes (k tcr), and after replacing dv units, developers and prcb multiple times, found the problem to be the wire harness that connects into the dv unit, it was only pinched a little bit but it was enough to be broken inside and make faulty connection and intermittently give those codes, we fixed the harness and the code never came back.
                    hope this helps.
                    I am not surpised by this. The events seem too coincidental to be anything but a harness related problem. Currently the board has been replaced with a new one and we will be watching for any related issues in the near future and act on that premise that the harness/connector has failed.

                    Though not related, I had a similar problem with one of the main body feed trays where the connector itself, not the harness included with, was at fault. Though a pain in the ass, swapping the connector from tray three to tray 2 confirmed the problem. I have little doubt I am experiencing a similar problem with the process unit connection.

                    Thanks for the ideas guys....
                    "Many years ago I chased a woman for almost two years, only to discover that her tastes were exactly like mine: we both were crazy about girls."
                    ---Groucho Marx


                    Please do not PM me for questions related to Konica Minolta hardware.
                    I will not answer requests or questions there.
                    Please ask in the KM forum for the benefit of others to see the question and give their input.

                    Comment

                    • random

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Stirton.M
                      As it turns out, ICP 15 was indeed blown on the previous events, as well as this one. The second previous event an IC associated with this was also blown, according to board repair.

                      Currently the machine is operating ok. The next event, if it happens, we will be going after the harness.
                      Is this ICP at the bottom of the board? If so then yes I would go for the loom as this is what we had to do. Comes up with a fault related to a communication failure I think.

                      Comment

                      • HORSE
                        Trusted Tech

                        100+ Posts
                        • Mar 2008
                        • 186

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Stirton.M
                        As it turns out, ICP 15 was indeed blown on the previous events, as well as this one. The second previous event an IC associated with this was also blown, according to board repair.

                        Currently the machine is operating ok. The next event, if it happens, we will be going after the harness.
                        Well now, I would say you have an intermittent short circuit somewhere between Process unit and the PRCB. Really ICPs just don't blow for the sake of it.... pinched or broken wires will more than likely be OC but ICP failure like that is more than likely SC caused by a trapped wire against metal.

                        Check harness in areas of movement, Check the connector.
                        Laughing......

                        Comment

                        • Stirton.M
                          All things Konica Minolta

                          1,000+ Posts
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 1804

                          #13
                          It tossed the code again. Got a new harness on the way, and am stealing a harness out of our training room machine.
                          "Many years ago I chased a woman for almost two years, only to discover that her tastes were exactly like mine: we both were crazy about girls."
                          ---Groucho Marx


                          Please do not PM me for questions related to Konica Minolta hardware.
                          I will not answer requests or questions there.
                          Please ask in the KM forum for the benefit of others to see the question and give their input.

                          Comment

                          • Stirton.M
                            All things Konica Minolta

                            1,000+ Posts
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 1804

                            #14
                            Ok, enough time has passed that I am confident the problem has been resolved.

                            The harness for the main process carriage itself was the fault area. I have to say, that was a pain in the butt to replace.

                            Thanks for the help guys.
                            "Many years ago I chased a woman for almost two years, only to discover that her tastes were exactly like mine: we both were crazy about girls."
                            ---Groucho Marx


                            Please do not PM me for questions related to Konica Minolta hardware.
                            I will not answer requests or questions there.
                            Please ask in the KM forum for the benefit of others to see the question and give their input.

                            Comment

                            • AyJayAreDii
                              Technician

                              50+ Posts
                              • Jul 2010
                              • 99

                              #15
                              I'm getting a lot off 2402 Erase lamp/K (EL/K) set cannot be detected. Machine works for a while then every so often come up with this code when turned on in mornings. Thinking about replacing the lamp but after seeing this thread was wondering if it is on the same harness, as TCR sensors and Erase lamps are from the same area? Could just be a different wire of the harness shorting out. Also there is already a service kit on order so also wondering if it is drum causing problem.

                              Comment

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