Kyocera General Question

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera General Question

I'll be interested in any answers that you get.

On the machines that I know the best: Konica Minoltas, Toshibas, and Kyoceras ...

I guess Toshibas are the easiest to understand the process. If the patches are not in a useable range you'll get CE40, CE20, or CA00, depending on whether it's a fault with the color registration patches or the color density patches. Rarely do we have problems with the patch sensors themselves. Sometimes the shutter doesn't open or the sensor gets dirty, but I don't think I've ever had to replace a patch sensor on a Toshiba. Usually the patch is imperfectly formed for a variety of reasons. In this order of likelyhood:

Poor developing/depleted developer
Dirty grid/scorotron
Dirty laser slit glass
Worn drum/poor drum cleaning
Poor primary transfer belt cleaning
Poorly tracking transfer belt
Laser issue in forming the patch

And all of these can be diagnosed by removing the primary transfer belt and examining the patches on the belt immediately after the code occurs. There are 08 modes that record the number of errors for each color and each sensor. I could memorize all those 08 modes or look them up each time ... or I could just pull out the primary transfer belt unit and see (in this order of likelihood):

Voids in the feed direction through a CMY or K patch
Light areas in the feed direction through a CMY or K patch
Lines of CMYK or composite black in the feed direction through all patches.
Wrinkled, ripped, or perforated transfer belt.
Skewed or absent patches

Overall, the only time I look at those 08 modes is if my eyes cannot diagnose it first.


=^..^=

I wanted to swing back around to this post after I did my homework and give it the amount of attention that it deserves.

Now that I understand the image process properly, this is a very intelligent way of isolating an image problem. Blackcat is relying on his eyes to tell him where the problem resides. It makes perfect sense to pull out the transfer belt to look at the patches if you think about it. I can see this as being my go-to method.

I'll also add this and you guys can correct me if I'm off-base. Looking the the patches can also tell us (or give us a clue) that the problem is most likely in the transfer process...assuming that there's no problem with the patches?? Or just shutting off the power during the copy process and looking at the belt?

[blackcat4866]

Re: Kyocera General Question

True.

I get most of my diagnostic data from these test patterns, see attachments:
I've made them up in a variety of sizes from COM10 envelope to ANSI D or Arch F (or ISO sizes if you prefer). The 11% fill pages provide the most data, but you'll be surprised how many faults appear in the Navy Blue Solid (this color has all four CMYK and demonstrates a wide variety of image quality faults).

The Sample Print does not present the bubbly voids that appear when the developer spacers crack (which only shows in >70% image fill).

At most office copiers The ANSI A (Letter) is adequate, but on a production print machine I'd rather see the image Arch B (full bleed, 12" x 18") or if they have it ANSI B+ (ISO A3+, 13" x 19"), and on wide format whatever the largest size paper width usually Arch D, Arch E1, or Arch F.

If you have a specific size in mind, just ask.

I can start putting aside image quality samples if you like. I used to 3-hole punch them and put them in a book. It was good inspiration when I had a particularly tricky image quality issue.

=^..^=

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera General Question

True.

I get most of my diagnostic data from these test patterns, see attachments:
I've made them up in a variety of sizes from COM10 envelope to ANSI D or Arch F (or ISO sizes if you prefer). The 11% fill pages provide the most data, but you'll be surprised how many faults appear in the Navy Blue Solid (this color has all four CMYK and demonstrates a wide variety of image quality faults).

The Sample Print does not present the bubbly voids that appear when the developer spacers crack (which only shows in >70% image fill).

At most office copiers The ANSI A (Letter) is adequate, but on a production print machine I'd rather see the image Arch B (full bleed, 12" x 18") or if they have it ANSI B+ (ISO A3+, 13" x 19"), and on wide format whatever the largest size paper width usually Arch D, Arch E1, or Arch F.

If you have a specific size in mind, just ask.

I can start putting aside image quality samples if you like. I used to 3-hole punch them and put them in a book. It was good inspiration when I had a particularly tricky image quality issue.

=^..^=

I'll take anything that you're willing to share.

Do you have examples of the problems that showed up when you ran the test charts? I'd be very interested in that. Knowing you...I'm sure you do.

[blackcat4866]

Re: Kyocera General Question

I throw them into the days paperwork, then dump them on Saturday. I can hold on to a few if you like.

I've still got binders full of Mita DC-131 and Mita 900D and Canon NP-3525 image quality faults. We won't be seeing any more of those. =^..^=

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera General Question

I throw them into the days paperwork, then dump them on Saturday. I can hold on to a few if you like.

I've still got binders full of Mita DC-131 and Mita 900D and Canon NP-3525 image quality faults. We won't be seeing any more of those. =^..^=

That's dedication there, folks. A true professional in every sense of the word. Props.

Yeah, send 'em my way. Thank you.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera General Question

I've been reading the Kyocera manual like a madman. Two things became abundantly clear:

1. I haven't been reading my manual close enough. There's some great troubleshooting methods in there for isolating just about any problem. I paid extra attention to poor image problems. It's not difficult to understand.

2. I've been relying too much on you guys to diagnose a problem for me. I appreciate all the help as you guys have solved numerous problems for me. But it's time that I learn these machines backwards and forwards.

I have some Kyocera color machines on order and when the shipping company decides to deliver them, I'm gonna run those tests that I've been talking about and I plan on introducing several problems to the machine and seeing how it affects certain readings.

Thanks for all the help.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera General Question

The more I read the manual the more I believe the information that KYO provided.


Here's what I gather and anyone can correct me if I'm wrong.


When a Kyocera copier does calibration, it's adjusting several things to maintain the best possible image. In no particular order. (I'm not gonna list everything as to try to keep it as simple as possible. )

- DV bias
- Laser Power
- Toner to DV ratio

I don't want to get too complicated but the ID sensors (it's actually the main processer that's getting the reading from the ID sensor) will also adjust the DV bias voltage to compensate for a worn transfer belt. This is done by the machine looking at the "stress" value. You can find the value for "stress" under U465. The manual also says that you can manually increase the DV bias voltage to compensate for a "bleached" (white looking belt) transfer belt.

The manual goes on to say that if you're having image quality problems to look at the value of U155 (toner sensor output). If the value is 100 or less, replace the DV unit. That would mean that the developer is either low or worn.

EDIT: Also, it appears to me that not only are the ID sensors reading the light reflected off the color patches, it's also reading the light reflected off the belt (where there's no color patches) itself to determine the "stress" value.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera General Question

One last thing and this is basic stuff but I'll cover it anyway...

When you arrive at the service call for an image problem, the first thing needed is to determine if the problem lies in the main body or the scanner section. This is done by printing out test charts under U089. If the problem doesn't appear on the test charts, the problem resides in the scan section.

If the problem does show up, is it on every color or a single color? If it's on every color, you're probably looking at a transfer problem. If it's only on one color, you're looking towards DR, DV, PCR, ect.

Again, feel free to critique this. That's what I'm looking for.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera General Question

PS - I know the experienced Kyocera techs have their own way of doing things and keep doing it that way because it's obviously working for you. I'm posting this stuff because I find it interesting.


A couple of things to pay attention to are:

1.) U468/ V Correction.

Whatever that number is it needs to be converted to binary. Once you do that it will show the pass/fail state of the last 16 calibrations. 1 = pass. 0 = fail. So, 1111 1111 1111 1111. That means the last 16 calibrations passed. 1111 1111 1111 1110 = last calibration failed.


2. U465 - Stress. It must be higher than 2600. If the number is lower, the belt is worn or damaged.

3. U155 - Value must be 101 or higher. If lower, replace DV unit.

[bsm2]

Re: Kyocera General Question

Normally YOU never F with maintenance settings other than adjustments and resets
Replace the Dev unit Drum unit transfer belt or bad part

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera General Question

Normally YOU never F with sp modes
Replace the Dev unit Drum unit transfer belt or bad part

That's not what the Service Manual says. It specifically says that we can raise DV bias to compensate for a worn belt. Don't shoot the messenger. lol

[bsm2]

Re: Kyocera General Question

That's not what the Service Manual says. It specifically says that we can raise DV bias to compensate for a worn belt. Don't shoot the messenger. lol

Kyocera has 3 year warranty replace the part

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera General Question

Kyocera has 3 year warranty replace the part

I can't remember which page it's on, but I'll find it today and post. What it said was to raise the DV bias voltage and if you reach the max value to replace the transfer belt. I'm sure they limit the amount of DC bias voltage so as not to do damage. I suppose if I could get several more thousand copies off a worn belt it may be worth it. And if the manual says I can do it, I'll entertain the idea. Especially in a pinch.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera General Question

It also talks about changing the drive time for add toner and other readings but there's not enough information there to understand it fully. Or I'm just not capable of understanding.

[bsm2]

Re: Kyocera General Question

I can't remember which page it's on, but I'll find it today and post. What it said was to raise the DV bias voltage and if you reach the max value to replace the transfer belt. I'm sure they limit the amount of DC bias voltage so as not to do damage. I suppose if I could get several more thousand copies off a worn belt it may be worth it. And if the manual says I can do it, I'll entertain the idea. Especially in a pinch.

It's Not the old days wear you turn a VR and make adjustments. Lots of setting you can F with but unless Tech support tells you DFW
replace the part.