Kyocera color vs. Sharp color

[copiertec]

We have a client that has Sharp's and Kyocera's,( MX-3640N's and a TA-4551ci) of course the client is complaining about the big difference in quality... to no surprise Sharp is winning the battle. I have heard techs talk about how you can make the Kyocera's emulate a certain manufacturer for color, I have read U468 in the service manual but do not fully understand it. Do I have to choose a target and export it to a usb, then import it back into the mfp? where do I get the target from?

Long story short, the Kyocera TA-4551ci was installed in an Engineering office and was mainly to be used to print mechanical drawings, but now they are printing their cover sheets to it as well and they have complained about the image quality of the solid fills compared to the Sharp's. So, I am hoping that maybe, once I get an understanding of the U468, it may help to avoid a machine swap out, possibly.

[Samanator]

Re: Kyocera color vs. Sharp color

I think what you're looking for is U485(Setting the image processing mode). If you go into U485 and press on Color Table 1(Prn) or Color Table 2(Prn) or Color Table 1(Copy) or Color Table 2(Copy) and you don't see a list, then the color tables haven't been loaded into the machine. If they have, I do believe TYPE_ST is the one for Sharp. When I use the color tables, I set both Prn (Print) and Copy to the same TYPE. After you reset the TYPE on all the Color Tables, as you exit the Maintenance Mode, you will be prompted to reboot the machine.

I have found on the CS xxx0 and CS xxx1 series that the default color was always lacking. I discovered the color tables early on. I found that TYPE_RH was generally best for most customers. So I started setting all new machines by loading the color tables and then setting them to TYPE_RH.

[copiertec]

Re: Kyocera color vs. Sharp color

I think what you're looking for is U485(Setting the image processing mode). If you go into U485 and press on Color Table 1(Prn) or Color Table 2(Prn) or Color Table 1(Copy) or Color Table 2(Copy) and you don't see a list, then the color tables haven't been loaded into the machine. If they have, I do believe TYPE_ST is the one for Sharp. When I use the color tables, I set both Prn (Print) and Copy to the same TYPE. After you reset the TYPE on all the Color Tables, as you exit the Maintenance Mode, you will be prompted to reboot the machine.

I have found on the CS xxx0 and CS xxx1 series that the default color was always lacking. I discovered the color tables early on. I found that TYPE_RH was generally best for most customers. So I started setting all new machines by loading the color tables and then setting them to TYPE_RH.

Thanks for the clarification, you are correct. I was able to switch the color profile, it's pretty close, time will tell.

[Samanator]

Re: Kyocera color vs. Sharp color

You're very welcomed.

I was surprised to learn that the color tables were in that machine. It has been my experience that the zero and one series didn't come with the color tables preloaded into the machine.

Kyocera has improved their default color, but I still change the color table at setup.

Long ago I when the color tables came out I picked out a color picture and then printed out the picture using each color table. I put the initial of the table on the back of each picture I printed on high quality bright white paper. I then went around to my customers that did a lot of color printing and ask the principal users or key operator to look at the pictures and tell me what picture they thought had the best color. Whatever picture they choose was the color table I put into that machine. Over a period of time, I found most would pick TYPE_RH.

That's why I use TYPE_RH as my default at setup.

[tsbservice]

Re: Kyocera color vs. Sharp color

You're very welcomed.

I was surprised to learn that the color tables were in that machine. It has been my experience that the zero and one series didn't come with the color tables preloaded into the machine.

Kyocera has improved their default color, but I still change the color table at setup.

Long ago I when the color tables came out I picked out a color picture and then printed out the picture using each color table. I put the initial of the table on the back of each picture I printed on high quality bright white paper. I then went around to my customers that did a lot of color printing and ask the principal users or key operator to look at the pictures and tell me what picture they thought had the best color. Whatever picture they choose was the color table I put into that machine. Over a period of time, I found most would pick TYPE_RH.

That's why I use TYPE_RH as my default at setup.

Smart move at your side no doubt 👍
Not so much from Kyocera to not put best settings as default.

[Samanator]

Re: Kyocera color vs. Sharp color

I think the best is subjective, tsbservice. I think what Kyocera did was very smart because color is subjective. Kyocera default color is 'business color' and for most this business color is just fine. Kyocera business color was also touted to be the least costly of most all competitors. And with that color palette I can see why. But let me explain this a little further.

Now remember this was during the zero series when Kyocera presented the color table option.

When I made all those pictures using the different color TYPE, I also checked how much toner was being used. This was a simple matter of printing the Service Status Page in U000. Somewhere toward the bottom of the page, you will find 'Last Page K/C/M/Y(%)'. This let you know how much coverage of what toner was used on the last page printed out. And before you say it, it is not referring to the Service Status Page.

When I compared the coverage on all the the different TYPEs, I found that the Kyocera default (TYPE_KO) produced color with the best yield. The TYPE_RH was the one most people liked and the biggest difference I found was TYPE_RH just used a little bit more black when producing color, but it was the second best yield overall. My reasoning for defaulting the machines under my care to RH over leaving it KO was the black cartridges are bigger anyway so there was and is little to loose and more to gain.

There are still customers that still not happy with my default. Many times it is a customer that had a Konica or a Sharp. And when I set the machine to the Konica (TYPE_KY) or Sharp (TYPE_SH) they are usually happy. But I stopped doing that. Now when I have a customer that is fussy about the color, I ask them for a picture or some image file I can put on a stick and then print most of the different color TYPE in U485. Then I let them tell me what is best. It takes a little time but I find it is always a win for me and the client.

Once again what Kyocera did with having different color pallets to choose from was and is (to me) genius because color is so subjective. As far as I am concerned, the default color is the best for the dealer (or customer if they are buying their own toner) because it provides good business color with a very high yield.

So I guess that 'best' you're talking about, tsbservice, could also be subjective.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera color vs. Sharp color

I think the best is subjective, tsbservice. I think what Kyocera did was very smart because color is subjective. Kyocera default color is 'business color' and for most this business color is just fine. Kyocera business color was also touted to be the least costly of most all competitors. And with that color palette I can see why. But let me explain this a little further.

Now remember this was during the zero series when Kyocera presented the color table option.

When I made all those pictures using the different color TYPE, I also checked how much toner was being used. This was a simple matter of printing the Service Status Page in U000. Somewhere toward the bottom of the page, you will find 'Last Page K/C/M/Y(%)'. This let you know how much coverage of what toner was used on the last page printed out. And before you say it, it is not referring to the Service Status Page.

When I compared the coverage on all the the different TYPEs, I found that the Kyocera default (TYPE_KO) produced color with the best yield. The TYPE_RH was the one most people liked and the biggest difference I found was TYPE_RH just used a little bit more black when producing color, but it was the second best yield overall. My reasoning for defaulting the machines under my care to RH over leaving it KO was the black cartridges are bigger anyway so there was and is little to loose and more to gain.

There are still customers that still not happy with my default. Many times it is a customer that had a Konica or a Sharp. And when I set the machine to the Konica (TYPE_KY) or Sharp (TYPE_SH) they are usually happy. But I stopped doing that. Now when I have a customer that is fussy about the color, I ask them for a picture or some image file I can put on a stick and then print most of the different color TYPE in U485. Then I let them tell me what is best. It takes a little time but I find it is always a win for me and the client.

Once again what Kyocera did with having different color pallets to choose from was and is (to me) genius because color is so subjective. As far as I am concerned, the default color is the best for the dealer (or customer if they are buying their own toner) because it provides good business color with a very high yield.

So I guess that 'best' you're talking about, tsbservice, could also be subjective.

That's very informative and I thank you for this. I tried the various different settings and it DOES make a difference. But in the end I agree with you that Kyocera is designed for "business" color and I never try to sell one of these in a situation where they need world class color like is found on some other brands. It simply doesn't measure up.

[KYO_OEM]

Re: Kyocera color vs. Sharp color

TA4551ci is a "very old" system and needs more often correct adjustments to get good ⊿E value (⊿E : indicator showing color difference)
Meanwhile KYO made high improvments, but correct adjustments also needed
AT 4551ci we got ⊿E nearby 40-50 only.(With Fiery ⊿E 25-30)
Just installed TA3554---> high gradation, black now black, etc..
now ⊿E nearby 20 (without Fiery controller)
Delta E.JPG
During 1 onside visit, dealer told me that Sharp made best quality compared to Ricoh and KYO
He made a copy from table with original testchart from Sharp.
I used our testchart and as a result--> best copy quality changed to KYO, 2. Ricoh, 3. Sharp.....

But color management iis still difficult, i agree with Samanator.

[progoffice]

Re: Kyocera color vs. Sharp color

Kyocera color has gotten a lot better over the years, but there was a long time where we just didn't sell their color products at all. We shifted our color focus to Konica Minolta and there was a night and day difference. If you've been with Kyocera long enough, you'll remember that at one time their flagship color machine was actually a Konica Minolta. When they decided to make their own, we gave it a shot but ended up having to buy back several of them because they sucked so bad. It wasn't until the "2" series that we gave it another shot and it's been fine so far. When replacing a Konica color with a Kyocera color, there's inevitably going to be that call about the colors not looking right. I've done the same experiment as previously mentioned here and let the customer pick the best looking version of what they are trying to print using every color table available. I now just default all of mine to Type_ST when setting them up and haven't had any many color quality calls since. Kyocera makes great machines and their color should work fine for most businesses applications; however, we still lean towards Konica color in environments where color quality is the most important thing to the customer.

[KYO_OEM]

Re: Kyocera color vs. Sharp color

You are right, i agree with you.
In past colour reproduktion was a nightmare, but meanwhile since TA 2552ci, TA2553ci we get more and more positive feedback from our dealers regarding colour reproduktion compared to other brands..
Next step with more improvement is coming soon...
As i had written, printouts from TA2554ci range with new toner and some other improvments looking better, higher gradiation, black now is black.
You`ll see it by yourself in future.

[Samanator]

Re: Kyocera color vs. Sharp color

I have been to many schools over the years. Konica and Kyocera schools for their color machines where I really learned a lot about the color process. I have also worked on a variety of other manufacturers' color equipment.

Ricoh at one time (to me) had a great product, (but in my view) they kinda priced themselves out of the market without offering much in the way of innovation.

To me and by far Konica and Sharp are right up there. These two manufactures also make production machines.

But I will say Kyocera is on the right track. From the time Kyocera bought Mita (and I'm an old Mita man from the days of the 600 Dry) it seems to me that Kyocera has made a considerable effort to improve their product, especially in color. Consider the 250ci,300ci,400ci,500ci. YIKES!! That was a nightmare. But those were replaced by the zero series (XXX0ci) and those guys were a big improvement. And so it is today with the new 4 series as Kyocera continues to refine and improve their color products. I think Kyocera has even introduced a production model.

In my view, when a manufacture gets into the production model machines, it has entered the realm of the most discriminating customer. And these customers do not put up with no shit product. Many of these guys use a loupe when examining the output. That's where Konica really dominates the market.

Remember, the above is just my opinion based on what I have worked on over the years. And for those of you that have been banging on equipment since the late 70s, early 80s, that's a lot.

[progoffice]

Re: Kyocera color vs. Sharp color

So is the "4" series part of the new Evolution series being launched this month? I haven't seen or heard much about them yet, just that they will allow for a speed license to be purchased and applied to a single base model.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera color vs. Sharp color

Good thread. It's answered many questions I've had and then some.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera color vs. Sharp color

Ran across this video on the Kyocera 4-series. These are the first Kyocera's to use Artificial Intelligence. AI is used to take a low resolution picture and turn it into a high resolution picture. AI is also used to recognize handwriting. Many other upgrades come with these machines. The speed key also allows dealers to reduce inventory.

Here's a great video on the 4-series machines.

PS - More AI applications will be released for the 4-series in the future via Firmware Upgrades.

[copiertec]

Re: Kyocera color vs. Sharp color

Ran across this video on the Kyocera 4-series. These are the first Kyocera's to use Artificial Intelligence. AI is used to take a low resolution picture and turn it into a high resolution picture. AI is also used to recognize handwriting. Many other upgrades come with these machines. The speed key also allows dealers to reduce inventory.

Here's a great video on the 4-series machines.

PS - More AI applications will be released for the 4-series in the future via Firmware Upgrades.

Sounds great, I like the document processor features, seems they are taking a page from Fujitsu scanners.