Kyocera 3051ci white lines Dev units going bad?

[KYO_OEM]

50/50 = after 8 minutes run time from Bk DV (U464/Time Intervall)system will run automatically color calibration after 16 minutes runtime from color DV

U486/ Value setting for Colour-/ black and white- operation mode

Mode1 = less colour pages during continuous b/w printing. Motor drive is switching on the fly
Mode2 = maximum colour pages during continuous printing. Motor drive resumes up to 9 pages in a row.
Mode3 = maximum colour pages during continuous printing. Motor drive resumes all the time.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera 3051ci white lines Dev units going bad?

50/50 = after 8 minutes run time from Bk DV (U464/Time Intervall)system will run automatically color calibration after 16 minutes runtime from color DV

U486/ Value setting for Colour-/ black and white- operation mode

Mode1 = less colour pages during continuous b/w printing. Motor drive is switching on the fly
Mode2 = maximum colour pages during continuous printing. Motor drive resumes up to 9 pages in a row.
Mode3 = maximum colour pages during continuous printing. Motor drive resumes all the time.

That's the explanation that I've been looking for. The service manual mentions drive time + low toner coverage but it doesn't go into detail like you just did. Great information as always, KYO. I now know what to look for and how to address the problem.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera 3051ci white lines Dev units going bad?

KYO,


I checked U157 & 158.


U157

C =1224
M=1224
Y=1224
K=2061


What do those numbers mean? You said that indicates minutes, correct? Please explain?

EDIT: I need clarity on this formula:

Now i calculate by this way:
U157*60/U158=needed time for 1 page



See Maintenance Report below:



doc00004420210304084040.pdf

[KYO_OEM]

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera 3051ci white lines Dev units going bad?



Thank you, KYO.

This is a machine we have in the shop. It's not having any problems. I just used it as an example. I hear you on the factory DV's and age but the prints look beautiful.

[KYO_OEM]

Re: Kyocera 3051ci white lines Dev units going bad?

i am wondering when i read the data
I couldn`t imagine these values together with faint/ wrong images
This can`t be the reason for me.
Check the recieved data i send to you by mail.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera 3051ci white lines Dev units going bad?

i am wondering when i read the data
I couldn`t imagine these values together with faint/ wrong images
This can`t be the reason for me.
Check the recieved data i send to you by mail.

One thing I've learned from KYO is that the Maintenance report tells an important story. The only problem is that the service manual doesn't explain how to read a lot of the data found in the Maintenance Report and it takes someone like KYO to explain it.


For the record, I've verified everything that KYO has shared with me in the past and I've found him to be 100% accurate.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera 3051ci white lines Dev units going bad?

I've had a little time to read over the information that KYO sent me.

Here's the conclusion that I came to on the DV units failing prematurely.


It's important to catch the problem early...before the DV powder starts showing signs of stress. The way you do this is to read the drive time of color and black units. But you also need to pay attention to the toner coverage. I'm not gonna post the values that you need to look for because it's already been posted. But if the numbers indicate a high drive time and/or low toner coverage, the relevant settings must be changed to compensate for both conditions.

[fishleg]

Re: Kyocera 3051ci white lines Dev units going bad?

It's gonna take me a while to read that a few times and understand it but basically your saying if colour isn't used it's causing the Dev to wear. Why does the machine not add toner I thought the TCR sensor in the Dev tank would cause it to add toner regardless of if it's getting slowly drained by calibration? Plus I thought If I'm printing black then surely colour is not turning other than calibration?

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera 3051ci white lines Dev units going bad?

It's gonna take me a while to read that a few times and understand it but basically your saying if colour isn't used it's causing the Dev to wear. Why does the machine not add toner I thought the TCR sensor in the Dev tank would cause it to add toner regardless of if it's getting slowly drained by calibration? Plus I thought If I'm printing black then surely colour is not turning other than calibration?

If you look at U325 it says the following:


Description
Due to the fact that, if toner consumption per driving time drastically lowers, the variation in coloring
and low density and gray background become prominent, the print coverage that executes
toner ejection according to the low density at a continued vertical printing with the low coverage
data must be changed.


Purpose
The settings must be changed when printing an extensive volume with the vertical A4/Letter of
low coverage contents or the toner consumption per driving time is extremely low.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________


We know from the service manual that the problem has to do with low toner consumption per drive time of the DV unit.


What I learned from KYO is that: U157 tells us how many minutes each DV unit has been turned.


Example: U157 on my working machine shows the following data

Color - 1224 minutes that the DV unit has been driven.

Here's the important part. How many color pages have been printed during that 1224 working minutes?

If we check U158 on my machine it shows the number of pages that have been printed for each DV unit.

In my case each color unit has 28090 pages that were printed.

If we take the total drive time (1224 minutes) and multiply it by (60-seconds), it gives us the the total drive time in seconds and we then divide that number by the number of pages that have been printed on the DV unit. That gives us the total drive time needed to print (1-page)


U486 /Mode 1 reduces the drive time for the color DV units when a customer is printing mostly black and white thus extending the life of color DV units.


U486/Mode1: A mode suited for the user with high black-and-white usage in which the
occurrence of color printing during continuous printing is minimum.
Once diverted to color printing mode, the subsequent black and white printing
is executed in the same linear velocity as in color printing with other processings
switched on the fly.


It's a bit complicated and the other settings that KYO pointed out need to be changed also.

[fishleg]

Re: Kyocera 3051ci white lines Dev units going bad?

If you look at U325 it says the following:


Description
Due to the fact that, if toner consumption per driving time drastically lowers, the variation in coloring
and low density and gray background become prominent, the print coverage that executes
toner ejection according to the low density at a continued vertical printing with the low coverage
data must be changed.


Purpose
The settings must be changed when printing an extensive volume with the vertical A4/Letter of
low coverage contents or the toner consumption per driving time is extremely low.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________


We know from the service manual that the problem has to do with low toner consumption per drive time of the DV unit.


What I learned from KYO is that: U157 tells us how many minutes each DV unit has been turned.


Example: U157 on my working machine shows the following data

Color - 1224 minutes that the DV unit has been driven.

Here's the important part. How many color pages have been printed during that 1224 working minutes?

If we check U158 on my machine it shows the number of pages that have been printed for each DV unit.

In my case each color unit has 28090 pages that were printed.

If we take the total drive time (1224 minutes) and multiply it by (60-seconds), it gives us the the total drive time in seconds and we then divide that number by the number of pages that have been printed on the DV unit. That gives us the total drive time needed to print (1-page)


U486 /Mode 1 reduces the drive time for the color DV units when a customer is printing mostly black and white thus extending the life of color DV units.


U486/Mode1: A mode suited for the user with high black-and-white usage in which the
occurrence of color printing during continuous printing is minimum.
Once diverted to color printing mode, the subsequent black and white printing
is executed in the same linear velocity as in color printing with other processings
switched on the fly.


It's a bit complicated and the other settings that KYO pointed out need to be changed also.

Sorry I'm still a little confused 🤪.

Why does the machine not add toner? So say I don't use colour for 6 months surely when the machine did a calibration it's going to see its got low toner in Dev tank and go I need to pause, refill toner before continuing surely?

U486 mode 1 - I guess that basically just calibrating black and ignoring colour calibration for as long as possible?

U325 - sounds like by changing that it's doing Dev refresh more often.

Unless I guess the calibrating is such a low coverage it can't add that tiny amount of toner so just forgets about it but surely in 10 calibrations time it would then replenish? I still don't get how the Dev tank sensor didn't cause the machine to replenish?

Appreciate the help sorry probably dumb questions..

[KYO_OEM]

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera 3051ci white lines Dev units going bad?


You're right, that's complicated. As much as I would love to understand every nuance of this phenomenon, I think in this case that I don't need to.

As a copier technician, all I need to understand is if the customer is printing mostly black&white and/or is the customer printing a lot of consecutive color letter-size pages at less than !% coverage.


U157/drive time will tell us if we need to change the settings.

My head hurts.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera 3051ci white lines Dev units going bad?

Sorry I'm still a little confused ��.

Why does the machine not add toner? So say I don't use colour for 6 months surely when the machine did a calibration it's going to see its got low toner in Dev tank and go I need to pause, refill toner before continuing surely?

U486 mode 1 - I guess that basically just calibrating black and ignoring colour calibration for as long as possible?

U325 - sounds like by changing that it's doing Dev refresh more often.

Unless I guess the calibrating is such a low coverage it can't add that tiny amount of toner so just forgets about it but surely in 10 calibrations time it would then replenish? I still don't get how the Dev tank sensor didn't cause the machine to replenish?

Appreciate the help sorry probably dumb questions..

I think this is what blackcat was trying to tell me way back in this thread:


Sometimes we may want to know everything about a problem but it's not possible without sitting down with an engineer and having them feed us the information one spoon full at a time.

As a copier tech, it's not necessarily in our best interest to understand everything. What is in our best interest is knowing how to solve the problem.

When I was being trained many years ago by another tech, I would ask him a lot of questions. Sometimes the solution couldn't be 100% explained and he would tell me to: "chalk it up to "magic" and move on.