kyocera 7002i J4009

[linuxgyro]

good morning, I am having difficulties in figuring out why this 7002i is having the j4009 jams. they are jams that originate from the bypass and fail to reach the registration roller within the specified timing. my first thought was that the rollers had worn out so I replaced the rollers on it. this had zero effect. I then figured I would order the whole bypass feed unit since it would have any bad clutches or sensors that I would need. this also did not fix the "jam" I use quotation marks because the jam occurs when the paper pulls in slightly and trips the first sensor in the bypass after the inital feed. I then called kyocera for any ideas and they suggested replacing the feed pwb board. I replaced this along with a maintence kit. everything in this machine is clean, the drive for it has been replaced, the pickup for it and all the sensors leading up to the registration have been replaced. the machine in question has a total of 2,308,394 copies as of the writing of this thread. any advise would be greatly appreciated. PS I will be calling kyocera back once i get to an area with cell service.

thanks!

[sparkycivic]

Re: kyocera 7002i J4009

what sort of stock is being fed into the bypass? Is it stiff like manila tag?
I've got a couple of large machines that do this, and I've come up with a mod that 'can' address it

[sparkycivic]

Re: kyocera 7002i J4009

The mod goes like this:
I took a bottom plate from a bypass assembly, and sliced off about 1/8 inch of the edge using our paper cutter guillotine to get a nice straight edge, it also took off the two tangs at the ends, don't worry they're not needed.

Then I grabbed a random strip of mylar and made a new guide to replace what had been sheared off(pictured).

This takes away the harsh ramp angle where the paper needs to turn upwards to go towards the registration roller. There's just not enough torque available to pull in that stiff paper, starting with the 2 series 70ppm and up since they started taking MPT power from the reg unit, instead of from the vertical conveying drive as previously. ...They would've gotten away with it too if it wasn't for the meddling harsh curve of the bypass lower guide plate!
20210312_131358.jpg20210312_131332.jpg

[blackcat4866]

Re: kyocera 7002i J4009

The mod goes like this:
I took a bottom plate from a bypass assembly, and sliced off about 1/8 inch of the edge using our paper cutter guillotine to get a nice straight edge, it also took off the two tangs at the ends, don't worry they're not needed.

Then I grabbed a random strip of mylar and made a new guide to replace what had been sheared off(pictured).

This takes away the harsh ramp angle where the paper needs to turn upwards to go towards the registration roller. There's just not enough torque available to pull in that stiff paper, starting with the 2 series 70ppm and up since they started taking MPT power from the reg unit, instead of from the vertical conveying drive as previously. ...They would've gotten away with it too if it wasn't for the meddling harsh curve of the bypass lower guide plate!
[ATTACH=CONFIG]48573[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]48574[/ATTACH]

I like your MacGuyver. =^..^=

[linuxgyro]

Re: kyocera 7002i J4009

The paper in question is cardstock. I haven't had the opportunity to return to the offender. Assuming my call load stays low I may be able to visit the machine this afternoon. Thanks for the tip!

[linuxgyro]

Re: kyocera 7002i J4009

I visited the machine in question this afternoon. I trimmed down the guides for the mpt. though i used a different way to slice it since the teachers in this building were hounding me. I eventually took the whole conveying unit apart and followed the wires through to make sure none were broken or pinched. I found nothing wrong and even reseated the rear of the splice connector in the door for the MPT. even after all that, the paper is stopping as soon as it reached the finger sensor right after the bypass feed rollers. this tells me that its either reading the sensor wrong (which is unlikely since I replaced the whole unit and both had the same issue) or a wire along the way is broken or the relay board has failed. thanks for your suggestions thus far.

[sparkycivic]

Re: kyocera 7002i J4009

does the feed roller spin on the paper or stall?
Does it try three times before displaying the jam message?
can it go with a little help from your hand?

[linuxgyro]

Re: kyocera 7002i J4009

the paper is stalling. It pulls in far enough to hit the first sensor then stops waits then jams. I have gone as far as replace the entire door paper conveying unit ( the entire door) along with the feed control pwb and the entire feed assembly for the bypass. the only thing i havent replaced is the engine pwb and or the main pwb. it really should be working. and of course i cant call kyocera while I am here since there is no cell service.

[sparkycivic]

Re: kyocera 7002i J4009

I finally got mine to work, turns out that trimming that plate isn't quite enough.
the paper is running into the face of the mid conveying rollers/plate that's right below the registration.

I created a proof-of-concept modified bypass that has both the trimmed bottom plate, as well as added mylar sheets that work together to reduce the friction enough so that stiff paper can feed reliably. I also removed the upper idle rollers from inside the bypass(the ones held by springs, not the modular ones further along the path), but I can't be certain that removing those helped much. My goal was to curl the leading edge of the paper as gently as possible which required using maximum space so that it would be encouraged to follow the shape of the upper surface instead of the lower surface which requires a sharper bend and therefore more effort.

Pictured, are the results of what actually feeds the stiff cardstock with minimum friction.

You can really feel where the friction is happening if you take a bypass unit, remove the separation roller spring, and then hand feed stiff paper through it. But the final piece of the puzzle is what happens as the paper exits the bypass and joins the main conveying path, it rams face-first into the four rollers and the steel plate, which causes enough friction to cause the jam. I added the long floppy mylar sheets to guide the paper above the plate and to the top of the rollers so it can move smoothly.

Kyo should really address the design either by changing the shape of the plate, the shape of the lower bypass guide plate, the gear ratio between the middle conveying drive and the bypass drive(new feature in 7002/8002)to flick the paper upwards as it exits the bypass without causing a loop below where there is no room for a loop, or perhaps restore the original drive power source for the bypass which was the vertical conveying drive pack in previous models.

[blackcat4866]

Re: kyocera 7002i J4009

Thanks for sharing! =^..^=

[linuxgyro]

Re: kyocera 7002i J4009

so i visited the copier for the last time on this issue last thursday. I brought with me the tech from kyocera to view my handiwork. we spent a few hours on it and he was honestly boggled what my issue was. I had brought some 199gms cardstock with me, a full 101gms below the max so it should have been able to handle it properly. though it did not. we eventually put it in cassette 1 under thick and adjusted the paper weight for thick to be above the 199gms. after I had gotten home, the kyocera tech called me and told me to look under the tech bulletin 1 specs for cardstock. in there the phrase "Hagaki (Cardstock)" was listed which when hagaki is searched on google:

"The Japanese word "hagaki" literally translates as "postcard." In printing, the term refers explicitly to the Japanese standard postcard size. As a result, all official hagaki prints are measured at 4-by-4 inches. Photo labs in Japan often for brevity will use the moniker "KG" to describe hagaki measurements."

so my take away and his was that we were trying the cardstock as too big of a paper size and therfore it is jamming as it is taking too much pressure as noted in a few posts above. as much as I would like to fix the issue like shown above, I have to be realistic. I spent way too much time playing with this one and the bosses are breathing down my neck for using so many parts and time. I will try to fix it like above if any other issues arise later, but for now I gave them the facts as laid out as I am in this post. they took it well and they seemed somewhat happy to know they can use tray 1 with its larger paper capacity so win win. thanks.

[tmaged]

Re: kyocera 7002i J4009

Mylar.jpg

Sparky, these mylars are for the upper finisher entrance guide and might work good. They are long & pretty stiff.
I happend to see them & think of this post, although Linuxgyro seems to have resolved the issue.