CS-8030: J86 for a while, then J63

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  • blackcat4866
    Master Of The Obvious

    Site Contributor
    10,000+ Posts
    • Jul 2007
    • 22927
    #1

    CS-8030: J86 for a while, then J63

    This machine will go 6 weeks or so with very little jamming. If I arrive early in the jamming cycle there will be intermittent J86 jams. Five pages in the machine, two of which pile up at the punch. One page exiting the fuser, one page exiting the duplex drawer to the left, and one page in the vertical path from tray #1 (or #2, doesn't matter). The finisher drive never runs.

    After a while the jam code changes to J63. Same five pages in the machine, two of which pile up at the punch. At this point no paper will pass. Machine sensors test fine in service mode. All finisher sensors are unresponsive.

    I did an exploratory, taking this finisher 1/2 way to the frame. There was no light-bulb moment, at least not yet.

    Then I remembered what I did the last time. Power Off/On, and away it goes. 1000+ without a jam.

    So what does this point to? I've tried various levels of firmware, and re-loading the most current. I'm wondering if the finisher is losing communication with the machine, but not logging any errors. Maybe a finisher controller?

    Anybody seen this? =^..^=
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=
    Tags: code, controller, dublex, finisher, firmware, fuser, jam code, light, paper, sea, test, time
    • habik
      Service Manager

      Site Contributor
      1,000+ Posts
      • Apr 2010
      • 2013
      #2
      Re: CS-8030: J86 for a while, then J63

      I had this on 2 machines, after the FW upgrade, I wonder whether the FW hasn't got a bug. I could not access finisher U240 and get the motors turning. Only after couple U906.

      Weird. But glad you posted it, cos I thought it was just heavy load on machine and too many users banging different functions and when machine jammed, nobody bothered to clear the jam, machines were switched off sometimes and than when cleared jam, these things were happening, until U906.

      I was giving the fault to the paper, as per my previous thread with Storage and etc with the paper, but I would definitely clean even once again and again all sensors in finisher, and the foamy set of rollers.

      I am sure you are aware of Duplex roller going after 700k.
      .OK Google! ... will I need Berrocca this morning?
      Firmwares HERE

        Comment

        • kyocera.team
          Trusted Tech
          • Aug 2010
          • 126
          #3
          Re: CS-8030: J86 for a while, then J63

          dear black cat
          i had this problem with km 8030 i clean dublex solenoid in parts catalog called SOLENOID B CLEANING. good luck my dear

            Comment

            • Metalvoc
              Trusted Tech

              100+ Posts
              • Sep 2008
              • 155
              #4
              Re: CS-8030: J86 for a while, then J63

              I don't have one here in the office to look at, so refresh my memory... does the 6030 have the connector for the eject/switchback section underneath, that you have to remove when you uninstall the eject? I was working on a 4530 the other day, and had to remove the eject. When I put the machine back together, I was getting finisher jams. It was jamming two at the punch, like you are describing. Started removing everything again, but when I got to that connector, it wasn't quite seated. To make my short story long, once I re-seated that connector, no more jams. Since the exit sensor wasn't tripping properly, finisher drive never started. I had almost ordered some finisher sensors as well.
              I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a week sometimes to make it up - Mark Twain

                Comment

                • blackcat4866
                  Master Of The Obvious

                  Site Contributor
                  10,000+ Posts
                  • Jul 2007
                  • 22927
                  #5
                  Re: CS-8030: J86 for a while, then J63

                  Did I mention that this is one of my higher count machines at 1.85M prints?

                  Originally posted by Metalvoc
                  I don't have one here in the office to look at, so refresh my memory...
                  On the CS-6030 the eject section is part of the transport drawer. I'm not familiar with the 4530, but it doesn't sound similar (but thanks for your comments).

                  Originally posted by kyocera.team
                  dear black cat
                  i had this problem with km 8030 i clean dublex solenoid in parts catalog called SOLENOID B CLEANING. good luck my dear
                  That solenoid has been changed fairly recently in an attempt to fix something else (which it didn't fix).

                  Originally posted by habik
                  I had this on 2 machines, after the FW upgrade, I wonder whether the FW hasn't got a bug. I could not access finisher U240 and get the motors turning. Only after couple U906 ... I was giving the fault to the paper, as per my previous thread with Storage and etc with the paper, but I would definitely clean even once again and again all sensors in finisher, and the foamy set of rollers.

                  I am sure you are aware of Duplex roller going after 700k.
                  I can't blame the paper this time. And yes, 700k is just about right on the duplex switchback roller. The one in there has only 100K, and not showing measurable wear yet. I had every sensor out of the finisher, and they're as clean as they're ever going to be.

                  I've ordered the PES (paper entry sensor), eject motor pinion gear 19T (split, but not hurting anything yet), and my last resort finisher main PWB. There's a little nagging voice in my head, wondering if this isn't some sort of a grounding issue-something exotic. I hope not. I'll keep you posted. =^..^=
                  If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                  1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                  2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                  3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                  4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                  5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                  blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                    Comment

                    • Metalvoc
                      Trusted Tech

                      100+ Posts
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 155
                      #6
                      Re: CS-8030: J86 for a while, then J63

                      Its part of the transport drawer on the 4530 too. If the finisher drive never starts then I would be inclined to say its the copier eject sensor, especially with your duplex jams. If it was the finisher pes sensor, it would jam near the same place, but the finisher would run. If its not eject then you probably do have something worse wrong with the finisher. Though every time I start digging for the exotic issue, I tend to discover it was something ridiculously simple that I was overthinking.
                      I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a week sometimes to make it up - Mark Twain

                        Comment

                        • xeroid
                          Document Technologies Pro

                          100+ Posts
                          • Feb 2008
                          • 148
                          #7
                          Re: CS-8030: J86 for a while, then J63

                          Is the duplex switchback roller the gray rubber roller on a shaft under the solenoid engaged white idler roller?

                            Comment

                            • blackcat4866
                              Master Of The Obvious

                              Site Contributor
                              10,000+ Posts
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 22927
                              #8
                              Re: CS-8030: J86 for a while, then J63

                              Originally posted by xeroid
                              Is the duplex switchback roller the gray rubber roller on a shaft under the solenoid engaged white idler roller?
                              Yes sir, that's correct.
                              Duplex switchback roller wears more at machine rear. Rough test: Lay your 6" scale along top of the roller. If it touches the guide at rear, replace. Precise test: Using a paper ruler measure roller's circumference at rear. New: 65.3mm. Worn: 64.0mm. The difference in circumference of 1.3mm or more seems to make the difference. It causes the paper to skew when passing through the duplex drawer.

                              =^..^=
                              If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                              1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                              2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                              3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                              4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                              5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                              blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                Comment

                                • habik
                                  Service Manager

                                  Site Contributor
                                  1,000+ Posts
                                  • Apr 2010
                                  • 2013
                                  #9
                                  Re: CS-8030: J86 for a while, then J63

                                  Originally posted by blackcat4866
                                  Yes sir, that's correct.
                                  Duplex switchback roller wears more at machine rear. Rough test: Lay your 6" scale along top of the roller. If it touches the guide at rear, replace. Precise test: Using a paper ruler measure roller's circumference at rear. New: 65.3mm. Worn: 64.0mm. The difference in circumference of 1.3mm or more seems to make the difference. It causes the paper to skew when passing through the duplex drawer.
                                  =^..^=
                                  I use different way to measure in case you don't have paper ruler or similar
                                  What I tend to do is get the old roller out and make a mark from center of the roller to the edge. Then do the same for new one. Put them next to each other, align marks and start slowly turning them against each other and after 1 round when you see difference( marks don't match), it is definitely going to bin.

                                  I hope new board will solve your issue, although I think the problem is with the PEJS switch, have you cleaned the huge rollers/tyre rims..these tend to slip (not pulling quick enough from PES) thats for TRAY A or the foamy rollers between PES and ITPCS could slip too....

                                  really only 100k machine? .. was it dropped or from lorry or what can you msg me the serial number and manufacturing date of machine and finisher if you have it on hand. I will compare it with my stock, as I think we had recently similar issue where machine had also around 100k and was doing a lot of j86 BUT no j63...

                                  good luck Black Cat
                                  .OK Google! ... will I need Berrocca this morning?
                                  Firmwares HERE

                                    Comment

                                    • blackcat4866
                                      Master Of The Obvious

                                      Site Contributor
                                      10,000+ Posts
                                      • Jul 2007
                                      • 22927
                                      #10
                                      Re: CS-8030: J86 for a while, then J63

                                      Originally posted by habik
                                      I hope new board will solve your issue, although I think the problem is with the PEJS switch, have you cleaned the huge rollers/tyre rims..these tend to slip (not pulling quick enough from PES) thats for TRAY A or the foamy rollers between PES and ITPCS could slip too....

                                      really only 100k machine? .. was it dropped or from lorry or what can you msg me the serial number and manufacturing date of machine and finisher if you have it on hand. I will compare it with my stock, as I think we had recently similar issue where machine had also around 100k and was doing a lot of j86 BUT no j63...

                                      good luck Black Cat
                                      What you saw has wisdom. I've added the ESW to my list of parts, and the two feedshift solenoids (FSSOLA and FSSOLC) in the finisher (per another thread/opinion), but I don't have much hope for the solenoids or the large rollers. The first roller into the finisher never starts turning, so these components don't even come into play yet.

                                      When I say paper ruler, this is what I mean: I cut a strip of paper 5mm wide x 215mm long and put a small piece of tape at one end. With the upper idler assy removed, I stick the tape to the roller and rotate the shaft to wrap the paper around the roller. Once it laps, I make a mark with a pen. Unwrap and measure. It doesn't require removing the roller or even the duplex tray, just the upper idler/solenoid. And you can use this method on any roller that needs measuring and can be rotated manually. My metal ruler just doesn't wrap around small rollers very well, and it would be ruined.

                                      The duplex switchback roller has 100k. The machine has 1.85M prints. =^..^=
                                      If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                      1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                      2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                      3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                      4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                      5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                      blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                        Comment

                                        • Haddat
                                          Technician
                                          • Apr 2011
                                          • 13
                                          #11
                                          Re: CS-8030: J86 for a while, then J63

                                          Originally posted by xeroid
                                          Is the duplex switchback roller the gray rubber roller on a shaft under the solenoid engaged white idler roller?



                                          part code 2KP94130 PARTS ROLLER SWITCHBACK DU SP

                                          Is that correct code?

                                            Comment

                                            • blackcat4866
                                              Master Of The Obvious

                                              Site Contributor
                                              10,000+ Posts
                                              • Jul 2007
                                              • 22927
                                              #12
                                              Re: CS-8030: J86 for a while, then J63

                                              Use this one: 302FB19401
                                              If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                              1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                              2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                              3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                              4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                              5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                              blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                                Comment

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