TA420i/520i, J61, revisited.

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  • jmaister
    certified scrub

    Site Contributor
    500+ Posts
    • Aug 2010
    • 755
    #1

    TA420i/520i, J61, revisited.

    G'day, I dont like to let this problem go(nor it to me), as I've (we've) perform all the task suggested, but two machines refused to be tamed.

    attached is a muddy explaination.

    edit: what I meant with the wider gap is I could clearly see through the space where the mainbody sit on the PF. Where as FAL3 setup is pretty snug.

    edit2: Pls disregard point 4.

    pf.jpg

    *jam 19 is paper leaving paper feeder not reaching FSW3 within 888ms.

    pf2.jpg
    Last edited by jmaister; 08-06-2011, 07:29 AM.
    Idling colour developers are not healthy developers.
    Tags: config, door, j61, limited, open, paper, spacers, time
    • Venom
      Technical/IT Support

      500+ Posts
      • Nov 2009
      • 765
      #2
      Re: TA420i/520i, J61, revisited.

      In addition to adding extra springs on vertical idlers, adding spacers to vertical paper switches I have had to replace both clutches in a few and paper sensors in a couple of machines. I haven't seen a J61 in months. My theory is that adding spacers allow the paper to hit the switch a little earlier.
      IBM, Mita, Konica Minolta, Ricoh, Kyocera, HyPAS, Canon, Oce, Samsung, HP, TEO IP PBX/Unified Communications, Comptia Network+ Comptia PDI+ Certifications

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        • blackcat4866
          Master Of The Obvious

          Site Contributor
          10,000+ Posts
          • Jul 2007
          • 22930
          #3
          Re: TA420i/520i, J61, revisited.

          So, is this resolved? I get the feeling from your explanation that you're not so sure.

          There's nothing wrong with a little healthy skepticism. =^..^=
          If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
          1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
          2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
          3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
          4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
          5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

          blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

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            • jmaister
              certified scrub

              Site Contributor
              500+ Posts
              • Aug 2010
              • 755
              #4
              Re: TA420i/520i, J61, revisited.

              If I was in charge, it is resolved. Since I'm not, I had to pull my solution out.

              Didnt quite understand why it worked at the beginning, these are thoughts to support why it did.

              edit: This is my final thought - Assuming the Jam timer has a look up table, it looks for the best fit code for the current condition.

              Delay at FSW3 ---> jam timer checks all the switches ---> hey! duplex/FSW1/Eject switch has paper--->timer table has Duplex and FSW1 listed as j61--->best code for the scenario--->BEEP!

              Final edit regarding this topic: it seems that I've overlooked that i could put a spacer behind fsw3... ah hell, i tried....
              Last edited by jmaister; 08-07-2011, 03:10 AM.
              Idling colour developers are not healthy developers.

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                • GETTER_DONE
                  #5
                  Re: TA420i/520i, J61, revisited.

                  i'm just tossing my 2 cents in but if your still having jam 61, I guess you have a large cap. tray 3 running when it jams. best fix for the 520i or 420i and even new out of box the whole vertical convey unit has bad clutches so try replacing whole unit. You can add the extra vertical spring but it won't last before long it jams too. I also seen duplex jams where paper will eject into center tray while a duplex job is running. The spring on the duplex switch needs more tension they say add a extra wrap but theres no room just bend the arm 45 degrees does the job too. the mylar behind the switch my or not do any good its from a falcon 3 tech pub but it my just mask the problem. I've seen it work one time so hope this helps you and all viewers looking for solutions. peace out!!!

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                    • jmaister
                      certified scrub

                      Site Contributor
                      500+ Posts
                      • Aug 2010
                      • 755
                      #6
                      Re: TA420i/520i, J61, revisited.

                      Spoke to a retired guru from Z-rocks!

                      He said for most of their high speed machines, by the time the jam is reported, usually its 2/3 switches behind. In principle, most jam timer should be similar.

                      Digital circuitry has propagation delay, since it happens in real time while the code and switches is being checked, the paper is still conveying before the "stop motor" command is sent out.


                      Here's an Idea, if a lottery ever come my way(not that I gamble), i'm gonna have a KM lab called...

                      "The Itch Yer cant Scratch!" specially for this kinda of issue.
                      Last edited by jmaister; 08-10-2011, 06:02 AM.
                      Idling colour developers are not healthy developers.

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                        • toddanderson
                          Trusted Tech

                          100+ Posts
                          • Dec 2005
                          • 233
                          #7
                          Re: TA420i/520i, J61, revisited.

                          I am still running into this I have replaced the clutches and added the extra springs on the white rollers

                          Is the switch shim of any help ? from falcon 3 bulletin

                          Any other ideas?

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                            • jmaister
                              certified scrub

                              Site Contributor
                              500+ Posts
                              • Aug 2010
                              • 755
                              #8
                              Re: TA420i/520i, J61, revisited.

                              A faulty PF.

                              The PF main clutch kicked early. The vertical section has no AI to stop this action, so it arrived at registration before duplex hence the timing is off.

                              To turn RCL on, RSW and "Image Ready" need to be on. While RSW can be cheated*, "Image Ready" cannot. The sign of this is the curled piece of paper when you open up the 2nd panel, shows that RCL was waiting for something.

                              Firmware didnt help. Next thing I'd do is swap out the PF, main clutch on PF, or the PF board.


                              thx to KM's TC for enlightening.


                              edit: this may sound crazy, but I'd actually raise the mainbody and increase the gap by 5mm and see what happens.
                              Last edited by jmaister; 08-15-2011, 07:02 AM. Reason: overturn is not related
                              Idling colour developers are not healthy developers.

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                                • Venom
                                  Technical/IT Support

                                  500+ Posts
                                  • Nov 2009
                                  • 765
                                  #9
                                  Re: TA420i/520i, J61, revisited.

                                  in addition to my other fixes, I suggest setting U161 mode to 2 to prevent toner blobs past the fuser
                                  IBM, Mita, Konica Minolta, Ricoh, Kyocera, HyPAS, Canon, Oce, Samsung, HP, TEO IP PBX/Unified Communications, Comptia Network+ Comptia PDI+ Certifications

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