KM-5050 screwy things happening with lift motor.

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  • Jimbo1
    Senior Tech

    500+ Posts
    • Mar 2008
    • 845
    #1

    KM-5050 screwy things happening with lift motor.

    I have a KM-5050 on location that is doing something I haven't seen one do before.
    Tray #1 will show empty even though it is full. When you choose it manually it says check behind the tray and see if there is a stuck piece of paper. I have 906'ed it about 40 times. When you take out the tray the lift motor runs. When you put the tray back in place the lift motor stops. Exactly opposite of what you woiuld expect.
    I have swapped drawers.
    I have swapped feed sections.
    I have swapped the drawer present switch at the back.
    It has been flashed.
    I have reseated the connectors on the main board.
    All to no avail. The motor does stop like it should when you open the front door.

    Ideas? Whiskey?
    Last edited by Jimbo1; 02-14-2012, 10:06 PM. Reason: spelling
    "Some days you get the bear, some days the bear gets you."

    Cdr. William Riker
    Tags: incorrectly
    • Jules Winfield
      Senior Tech

      500+ Posts
      • Jul 2009
      • 821
      #2
      Re: KM-5050 screwy things happening with lift motor.

      Have you tried swapping out the lift motor?
      But I'm trying, Ringo. I'm trying real hard... to be the Shepherd.

        Comment

        • kkendric
          Trusted Tech

          250+ Posts
          • Apr 2009
          • 301
          #3
          Re: KM-5050 screwy things happening with lift motor.

          When the lift motor goes it sometimes takes out some components on the engine board.

            Comment

            • ZOOTECH
              Senior member of CRS

              Site Contributor
              2,500+ Posts
              • Jul 2007
              • 3375
              #4
              Re: KM-5050 screwy things happening with lift motor.

              Originally posted by Jimbo1
              When you take out the tray the lift motor runs. When you put the tray back in place the lift motor stops. Exactly opposite of what you woiuld expect.
              Ideas? Whiskey?
              I've seen the exact symptoms on a Sharp machine when the tray present sensor connector was installed incorrectly (reverse polarity).

              I'm sorry, it wasn't the tray present sensor connector, it was the connector for the DC lift motor that was plugged incorrectly.
              Last edited by ZOOTECH; 02-15-2012, 01:29 AM. Reason: Correction.
              "You can't trust your eyes, if your mind is out of focus" --

                Comment

                • blackcat4866
                  Master Of The Obvious

                  Site Contributor
                  10,000+ Posts
                  • Jul 2007
                  • 22999
                  #5
                  Re: KM-5050 screwy things happening with lift motor.

                  If the drive coupler sticks in, you'll get this effect. As a test, swap the upper & lower lift motors, or just remove the tray and manually compress the coupler several times to see if it pops back out. If the motor runs and the coupler rotates, I doubt that there's any problem with the motor or engine PWB.

                  I've seen this happen on Ricoh, Sharp, and Konica Minolta. Sometimes the splined plastic shaft will twist slightly (less than 1/4 turn over the whole length. You won't be able to straighten the shaft but you can file out the coupler so that it will slide freely on the shaft. A little white lithium doesn't hurt either.

                  If the shaft is twisted nearly off ... well you'll have to replace that one. And it's relatively common to have a Kyocera Falcon III lift motor short out the motor control circuitry on the engine PWB, but the motor won't run in that situation. And the swap test works perfectly. The shorted motor will then blow the driver circuitry on the other tray too, but you had to change the engine PWB anyway, and you might as well change both lift motors to be sure to get the shorted one. If tray #1 begins to work after the swap you're engine PWB has survived, and the tray #2 lift motor is dead.

                  =^..^=
                  If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                  1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                  2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                  3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                  4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                  5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                  blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                    Comment

                    • Jimbo1
                      Senior Tech

                      500+ Posts
                      • Mar 2008
                      • 845
                      #6
                      Re: KM-5050 screwy things happening with lift motor.

                      Thanks all and I forgot to post I had already swapped lift motor and yes one of the things was paper present sensor.
                      Going back today armed with an engine board.
                      "Some days you get the bear, some days the bear gets you."

                      Cdr. William Riker

                        Comment

                        • Jimbo1
                          Senior Tech

                          500+ Posts
                          • Mar 2008
                          • 845
                          #7
                          Re: KM-5050 screwy things happening with lift motor.

                          Thanks to all for the effort. I did indeed turn out to be the engine board.

                          And I have a tech rep who says boards never fix things..........



                          "Some days you get the bear, some days the bear gets you."

                          Cdr. William Riker

                            Comment

                            • blackcat4866
                              Master Of The Obvious

                              Site Contributor
                              10,000+ Posts
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 22999
                              #8
                              Re: KM-5050 screwy things happening with lift motor.

                              Originally posted by Jimbo1
                              ... And I have a tech rep who says boards never fix things..........
                              I try to avoid definitive adjectives like always and never. I'm guaranteed to be proved wrong when I say something like that.

                              I had this same situation on a bizhub C360 over the last couple months. About every three weeks I was getting a tray lift error. At first 0204 (tray #2). About a couple visits in I swapped the lift motors. After that the error was 0202 (tray #1). Talk about intermittent!
                              =^..^=
                              If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                              1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                              2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                              3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                              4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                              5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                              blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                Comment

                                • pjdbm
                                  Trusted Tech

                                  250+ Posts
                                  • Sep 2007
                                  • 360
                                  #9
                                  Re: KM-5050 screwy things happening with lift motor.

                                  good job Jimbo,I will remeber this one for the future

                                    Comment

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