Company owner forcing us to use non-OEM toner - what comes next?

[JR2ALTA]

Re: Company owner forcing us to use non-OEM toner - what comes next?

The real scandal is if your boss is charging OEM rates and not passing some savings to customer.

[kmtech]

Re: Company owner forcing us to use non-OEM toner - what comes next?

1128 drum units really hate Katun toner.....

I use katun toner on the 1128's only, do you have a generic that works better?


Thanks

[Kidaver]

Re: Company owner forcing us to use non-OEM toner - what comes next?

I use katun toner on the 1128's only, do you have a generic that works better?


Thanks

I'm in the same boat as the person who started the thread. I get no say so in toner decisions, I just give my opinion. If it were up to me I'd not use anything other than OEM toners. As for the 1128's I change enough fusers due to the warping and thermostat I sure don't need crappy toner making me change them more often. Sure the drum unit is easy enough to replace but the cost is going to bite us in the ass in the long run. We've started getting away from the Katun for the most part. Also the Katun doesn't like to sit in the dev unit just right it seems and I've had 3 calls to go clean up "exploding" toner cartridges. The customer won't get the cartridge locked down just right and it will puke toner all over the machine and surrounding area.

[MR Bill]

Re: Company owner forcing us to use non-OEM toner - what comes next?

For the KM-2530-3035 series I tryed gen toner from densi. Bad mistake. Copies got real light. I lost a toner customer also cause of this.

One of my my buddies from another company uses Katun toner. Grey handle for the KM-2530-3035 etc. Says it works good. But they have to go out to the customer every now and then and clean the spots off the drum. Toner will stick to the drum and put specks on the prints. The gen toner does not have the lub polish in it? I guess thats what you call it. If you switch to gen toner you have to dump all the oem toner out and then set up with gen toner or CQ will get real light as gen toner is slowly added to the oem toner.

In the long run you save money on toner but lose money on parts and labor. WHY MESS WITH IT.

This is my experience on this model only. Not sure about other models.

Have had good luck with some Sharp gen toners and bad luck with some Sharp gen toners. ?? And the venders are not going to call you and say, Oh sorry, we are having a issue. They just hope you don't complain.

So show your boss all these posts . I have been doing this sense 1974. I have a little bit of an idea about what I'm doing.

Best to you.

[logrady2331]

Re: Company owner forcing us to use non-OEM toner - what comes next?

Kyocera toners have a proprietary ceramic scrubbing agent mixed in with the toner. That is how they get such a long drum life. No aftermarket toner supplier can do that because Kyocera has a patent on thier supplies. There are several schools of thought on aftermarket versus OEM. If I were an owner (and I have been) of a dealershiop with factory authorization I would not want to use aftermarket supplies simply beacuse I want my quarterly rebate when I hit my target expenditures. OEM is always better beacuse it takes the guesswork out of troubleshooting CQ problems and suspected supplies issues. I do not have the opinion that all aftermarket toners suck and cause all kinds of problems. I use both OEM and aftermarket and it really depends on the machine and the volume on the particular machine. Technicians tend to think at the customer level (which is good) but must also remember how hard it is to turn a profit these days. Contrary to popular belief owners do not make alot of money on hardware sales. After sales commissions, overhead (building rent, utilities, commnications, etc.) technician salaries, vehicle allowance - the list goes on and on - there isn't much left for the owner to put in his or her pocket. Copier dealerships make thier money at the back end. I support whatever policy the owners hand down.

[tech07]

Re: Company owner forcing us to use non-OEM toner - what comes next?

Your boss should really see these posts. All these techs are right. I've got 30 years in as a tech and know what I'm talking about. Make sure he has a calculator when he does the math on generic toner savings vs. svc. calls generated by this toner. A manager/boss/owner should generate revenue, not lose it.

[blackcat4866]

Re: Company owner forcing us to use non-OEM toner - what comes next?

I can't disagree with any of the others. Aftermarket toner is an avoidable hazard.

Personally I've seen severe mottling. It's a Canon term for toner buildup on the developing roller. When there is hard toner built up on the mag roller, less toner is available to transfer to the drum, and pushes ahead of it a small cloud of toner as it passes the S-blade. You end up with ovoid smudges that repeat (38mm for Stratos, 35mm on FalconII, 35.75mm for FalconIII). It's rare with OEM toner, and consistent all the time with aftermarket toner.

I've also seen the toner adhering to the drum on Stratos and FalconII.

I'm not sure why it occurs, but I've seen broken cleaning unit augers as a result of using aftermarket toner. It must not auger as easily as OEM. I had done a contract-ready evaluation on a FalconIII, and had included in the recommendation vacuuming out the aftermarket toner and installing OEM toner. Three days later (and before the recommendations were considered) the cleaning auger broke, damaging the drum and dumping a considerable amount of toner. It added $300 to the quote.

Penny wise, pound foolish. You'll more than make up for any toner cost savings with the additional labor to clean mag rollers, clean drums, replace drum units, and replace fuser units.

Feel free to quote me, if it serves any purpose. =^..^=

[Jules Winfield]

Re: Company owner forcing us to use non-OEM toner - what comes next?

I'm sure someone probably already mentioned it, but if you use generic toner in Kyocera machines you will void the warranty on the consumable parts. So when the drum unit or dev unit fails early (which is almost a mathematical certainty if you're using generic toner) Kyocera will not cover it. And yes, they will be able to tell if you're using generic toner in the part you send back.

[luis8832]

Re: Company owner forcing us to use non-OEM toner - what comes next?

prepared for copy quality issues, dev units going bad and alot of extra service calls. Worked for 2 companies that did the same and all i got
was grief and aggravation from the customer.

[JR2ALTA]

Re: Company owner forcing us to use non-OEM toner - what comes next?

I dunno, machines that only run OEM suck sometimes too.

I see the problem as manufacturers bending dealers over a barrel forcing cost cutting decisions.

People mention kyocera. Six years ago you could buy each and every single fuser part, now cough up 300 bucks for a busted picker finger.

No one wants to buy crap, but at the end of the day, most dealers are just trying to make a dollar out of fifteen cents

[nmfaxman]

Re: Company owner forcing us to use non-OEM toner - what comes next?

A lot of the new toner is "polymerized".
This means the toner particles are of a same size and have a built in polymer to give lubrication.

Only the OEM manufacturers have the machines to make this toner.

Try putting OEM developer in a machine using generic toner, or vise verse.
Overtoning or undertoning with failure codes and CQ problems.

If you put both, you may not have CQ problems, but you will go through cleaning blades and heat rollers like you go through socks.

Penny wise, dollar stupid.

I bet the owners car gets the best of everything.

[KenB]

Re: Company owner forcing us to use non-OEM toner - what comes next?

I may be wrong, but somewhere I heard that the manufacturers make some dealers commit to buying a cetrtain amount of toner in order to get better pricing on machines and/or parts.

[ignacio.cortez]

Re: Company owner forcing us to use non-OEM toner - what comes next?

Against my strong suggestions, we are now being forced to give non-OEM toner to our unsuspecting clients - for all our Kyocera machines. Of course the toner provider SWEARS we will have no issues; however, I'd like to be ready for the problems we will soon be facing.

What issues do I need to expect from this change (i.e. what is most likely to break or cause problems)?

Thanks for any heads-up!

FIND another JOB You're going to have some fun mainly with CQ, but also some of the supplies (PCU and such, wearing faster) among others.

[habik]

Re: Company owner forcing us to use non-OEM toner - what comes next?

bad idea in long run,got clients this side who prefer katun or ikon for obvious reason, cheaper than oem,,,but now 75% of our calls from these clients are to do with bad quality copies, either background, dots on copies, scatched drums, double images due to fuser roller damages,or some complain about yield. These toners gives you far less the recommended copy yield,

check closely if you have a km 2550,or cs 2550 if you fitted katun, NO DOUBT SOON,it will give copies with dots or background,esp this model i had this problem more than 20 times recently

I am backing you up on this one with Katun toner KM2550 also fits in KM1620-KM1635 ...once you get this the other way around you take with your NEW OEM toner the FULL PM kit and starting fresh....

[MR Bill]

Re: Company owner forcing us to use non-OEM toner - what comes next?

Habik, toner for KM-2550 is not the same as KM-1620 , KM-1635. I don't think the cart fits at all. Looks the same tho .

KM-2050, KM -1650 is the same as KM-1635 , KM 1620. FYI.

But anyway don't use gen toner. Period.