3 and 4 series MPC toner add issues

[Klydon]

I have had a few issues with the 3 and later series machines where a machine will indicate to replace a color toner (using OM toner). The devo unit is locked up (you can hear a grinding sound in the machine) and where the toner goes in is packed. Also, the toner hopper auger is broken or deformed. In one case, I replaced both of these at the same time and it worked fine and I have never had another issue with that machine again. (MPC 3004). In the case of two MPC 2503, the issue came right back. In one it was the board that runs the toner add motor (would always run) and in the other, the machine was swapped because no matter what we did, we could not get it to stop adding toner.

I am currently working on a MPC 3004ex. Replaced the devo unit, toner hopper. Customer called back. Toner was topped up on the devo unit, but not packed yet (I can turn the devo unit still). The print is not over toned. The TDS sensor is reading a pinch high, so it should most likely be adding toner. It is almost like the toner gets plugged and won't go into the developer unit. You can hear the toner hopper running to add toner and the bottle will spin to move toner into the system.

My current plan is to do a PCDU and before I put it in, I am going to completely clean the entire magenta toner feed system out of toner and use a new bottle. I don't exactly feel confident on this plan, but I don't have any other ideas on proceeding with this issue either and most of the other guys I work with don't know either.

Anyone been seeing or hearing of this issue by chance and what corrective actions have been working for you?

Thanks.

[slimslob]

Re: 3 and 4 series MPC toner add issues

I believe there was a bulletin concerning the toner hopper auger breaking on the CXX03.

[Oze]

Re: 3 and 4 series MPC toner add issues

There are MANY bulletins relating to this issue.
Here's but one:

[Oze]

Re: 3 and 4 series MPC toner add issues

One other crucial thing to remember is to make sure that the dev turns freely BEFORE you put it in the machine.
There's also a bulletin concerning the batch numbers of affected devs/pcdu.
If I can find it I'll upload it.

[Klydon]

Re: 3 and 4 series MPC toner add issues

I am familiar with the augers breaking and/or being twisted and generally not working. That was the case with this machine, but the hopper assembly has been replaced. You can hear the hopper motor running to add toner and we can see the developer unit getting toner. (If it is enough or "normal" is another matter). I did pull the new toner hopper to inspect it to make sure the auger was ok and it was. I also worked the gears manually and toner was coming out.

[Zaxxon]

[copier tech]

Re: 3 and 4 series MPC toner add issues

I have had a few issues with the 3 and later series machines where a machine will indicate to replace a color toner (using OM toner). The devo unit is locked up (you can hear a grinding sound in the machine) and where the toner goes in is packed. Also, the toner hopper auger is broken or deformed. In one case, I replaced both of these at the same time and it worked fine and I have never had another issue with that machine again. (MPC 3004). In the case of two MPC 2503, the issue came right back. In one it was the board that runs the toner add motor (would always run) and in the other, the machine was swapped because no matter what we did, we could not get it to stop adding toner.

I am currently working on a MPC 3004ex. Replaced the devo unit, toner hopper. Customer called back. Toner was topped up on the devo unit, but not packed yet (I can turn the devo unit still). The print is not over toned. The TDS sensor is reading a pinch high, so it should most likely be adding toner. It is almost like the toner gets plugged and won't go into the developer unit. You can hear the toner hopper running to add toner and the bottle will spin to move toner into the system.

My current plan is to do a PCDU and before I put it in, I am going to completely clean the entire magenta toner feed system out of toner and use a new bottle. I don't exactly feel confident on this plan, but I don't have any other ideas on proceeding with this issue either and most of the other guys I work with don't know either.

Anyone been seeing or hearing of this issue by chance and what corrective actions have been working for you?

Thanks.

Seen this so often now on all the METIS series even the ex so far not on the IMC range.

I carry a set of hoppers & dev gears in the car.

[Klydon]

Re: 3 and 4 series MPC toner add issues

That is what I did the first time around. (I made the mistake of not doing that with a 4 series color and the result was I had to replace the toner hopper again).

I have the entire PCDU and a new hopper in now and will be going to do battle with this sucker tomorrow. Hopefully it will behave, but we shall see.

@copier tech. Hoppers and gears are not too bad for these space wise, but what do you do for developer units that are totally locked up?

For those that have not messed with these, one hopper doesn't fit all. There are differences and you have to make sure you have the right hopper for the right color you are working on. I had one of my work mates make that mistake when he ordered the wrong color hopper.

[slimslob]

Re: 3 and 4 series MPC toner add issues

I have a question for those of you who have had to replace a toner hopper. What type of climate are you located in?

I live in a warm climate and had never had a hopper fail on the 03 series. I retired just about the time the 4 series came out. The lowest temperature I have seen in Bakersfield was 17 F. We get show only about once every 8 to 10 years. In the summer we have anywhere from 35 to 50 days of 100+ temperatures.

Could extremely low over night temperatures be causing the augers to become brittle? Or possibly condensation in the hopper or development unit. If so, would the scanner heater or tray heater might help?

[Klydon]

Re: 3 and 4 series MPC toner add issues

Midwest here. From what I remember, time of year really hasn't played a role in when augers get broken. It just isn't 3 and 4 series machines. I have done several MPC 305 series machines as well and have done a SPC 440 too.

We have had some issues with new developer units during the summer. Units sit in cars that get cooked because of the heat and the developer gets caked up. I have had this happen both with little and big color machines. Typically I have gotten the developer units from other techs that I know don't have garages. My car is in a garage when I am at home, so I have not had those issues. I can't remember if they changed the packaging, but Ricoh now sends developer units using a box in a box packing technique for protection. The result is a package that is much larger than the PCU box or a entire PCDU. In fact, the boxes are so large, I typically keep developer units in my garage because they take up so much space.

I had a couple of MPC 305 family PCDU's be bad because the developer had harden in the top of the PCDU in late summer this year.

I don't know if condensation is playing a role or not. We typically struggle with humidity in paper during the summer. During the winter, it seems like when we get a cold snap, (temps below freezing), copy quality calls pick up. PCU's that are long in the tooth will chose that time to exhibit lines from charge rollers. One year, I changed out 80 drums in MPC 3300's during Nov-Feb and otherwise used 5 pcu's the rest of the year. (It was a cold winter that year with several brutal cold snaps). Our theory on that is when the temps drop that low, the furnaces run far more often for heat and it causes the air to be very dry.

[Polarbear]

Re: 3 and 4 series MPC toner add issues

Hi all

here in Sunny South Africa, in my service area, we very seldom get anywhere near freezing point temps, and we also had a batch of these break toner coils, especially black ones. Also we randomly had dev units lock up and sound like a chainsaw, so bound up that you could not turn the gears by hand.

The bearing story makes sense, as it seemed to go away the longer the model was in production. One thing is strange though, we would not replace the broken auger, but rather repair it, by inserting a short piece of metal staple between the back of the auger piece and the base (to locate the auger) and then we would supply our standard instant glue called "Q-bond" with some of their own black bonding powder, then re-assemble and test.

To date, not one of the repaired coils have broken again.... makes one wonder....

On another note, we have even had one of the b/w boxes that use the large black toner bottle, break their toner coil in the same way. Repair was not possible as the coil was so contorted that in would bend once inserted in the toner path, once clued back together. So we opted to replace the supply unit.

[Klydon]

Re: 3 and 4 series MPC toner add issues

Just to update on this one. I basically executed the plan I mentioned above. (New PCDU and hopper for magenta). I took apart the entire toner add system for magenta from the bottle down and cleaned it all out with a vacuum and then went with a new toner cartridge. The hopper I pulled out had a mangled auger in it (this was the replacement I put into the machine). Second time that has happen where I have put in a new hopper only to have the machine wreck it again.

It wound up being an expensive fix. (2 devo units, 2 hoppers, and a PCU).

The good news is the sucker appears to be working so far. Hopefully it stays that way for awhile.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in on this thread and I would like to hear from anyone else that runs across this issue because like I said; this isn't the first time for me and it has happen to some of my team mates and we don't have a handle on what is causing it.

[Oze]

Re: 3 and 4 series MPC toner add issues

I've had an MPC3504 that I've been struggling with as well.
Grinding supply gears and out of magenta toner.
Went the first time(Account is 2 hours away) and replaced magenta PCDU and a new toner supply unit...turned the dev to make sure that it wasn't seized and it worked fine.....for a day.
Went back the next day with a new magenta dev and a s/h toner supply unit AND updated the firmware.
It's working fine for now....it had NEVER had firmware updated.

[anothertech]

Re: 3 and 4 series MPC toner add issues

It's working fine for now....it had NEVER had firmware updated.

All too common where I work. Must be too hard for the techs to DO THEIR JOB!

I fully understand if you don't have access to firmware, but if you do, JUST DO IT.

Stepping down off soapbox now.

[Oze]

Re: 3 and 4 series MPC toner add issues

All too common where I work. Must be too hard for the techs to DO THEIR JOB!

I fully understand if you don't have access to firmware, but if you do, JUST DO IT.

Stepping down off soapbox now.

I hear you....and it's a noisy troublemaker account as well so it's not as though other techs have never been to the machine.