[Misc] Multi-feeding due to static ???

[sandmanmac]

I feel like I've seen some threads relating to dealing with static before, but I can't seem to find them right now.

Got called in today to a customer that has been having a paper feed issue on their C3003 for some time, but it has seemingly gotten much worse.

They print quite a lot of single-sided letters on double-sided, pre-printed paper.

The machine has very low mileage (30K total), and I've replaced the feed rollers anyway, just to see if it helped. I've also tried all 3 lower paper trays. Nothing changed.

If they run 50 pages, it will feed 4-5 sheets at once on several occasions.
I don't have the exact specs of the paper, but it's not heavy at all, and not glossy either.
I tried using different paper type settings to slow down the process but with no change.

I'm pretty convinced that static is the culprit and the sheets are quite clinged together when the exit.
I'm wondering if there is a specific attachment from Ricoh that can be installed, or if there are any other Tech Tricks someone may be able to pass along to me on how to reduce the effects?

The office is completely carpeted, and I wondered if even placing a rubber mat underneath might help?
I never really had to deal with an issue like this, so open to any ideas.

Edit: Additional issue has been resolved

Thanks for any advice!

[blackcat4866]

Re: Multi-feeding due to static ???

It would help me if you weighed up some of that paper, to determine gsm.

Does your Ricoh have page separation adjustments at the paper trays? Increasing page separation might help. You might also order some static eliminators, them install them to the pickup assembly and ground them to discharge any static. I've experimented with this on another machine. Mostly what I learned is that it made no discernible difference.

I would be interested to see a photo of the page separation at the paper trays. =^..^=

EDIT:
So I found a video of this feed unit being disassembled (in Czech language).
It's basically the same feed unit that Toshiba has been using on their LCF's for the last 15 years. No there is no intentional adjustment for page separation. But if you are adventurous, you might try a slightly weaker spring in this view, to get increased page separation. Don't lose the original spring, in case you have to put it back:

MP_C3003_Page_Separation.jpg

=^..^=

[sandmanmac]

Re: Multi-feeding due to static ???

Thanks Cat!
I was about to tell you that there was no page separation adjustment that I was aware of, but thanks a bunch for the tip on the spring.
I'll be venturing back in a day or 2 and try a few things.
After starting the thread, I began wondering that if static is the problem, then why is it not an issue AT ALL from the other trays, but I suppose that could simply be the different type of paper being used.

I'll also see if I can get the specs on the paper, But I think they do the initial printing at their head office in Cali, and then ship up a bunch of generic boxes full of it, and print the additional text from the database.

I had an issue a few years ago where the preprinted text was actually transferring and creating a double image effect that looked like the printer had a cleaning/ transfer issue as it wasn't obvious from the beginning that it was actually the 'pre-printed' text that was being transferred and not the text that they had added to it.

[blackcat4866]

Re: Multi-feeding due to static ???

Thanks Cat!

I'll also see if I can get the specs on the paper, But I think they do the initial printing at their head office in Cali, and then ship up a bunch of generic boxes full of it, and print the additional text from the database...

If you can get a weight (in grams or ounces) of ... say 10 or 20 pages (and quantity), and the page size, I can tell you the gsm.
=^..^=

[slimslob]

Re: Multi-feeding due to static ???

When it picks up 3 or more sheets at once it is almost always a bad torque limiter for the reverse roller. Part Number D1292783

[sandmanmac]

Re: Multi-feeding due to static ???

When it picks up 3 or more sheets at once it is almost always a bad torque limiter for the reverse roller. Part Number D1292783

Thanks Tim, I would have thought that too, but it's all 3 lower trays, less than 30k total on unit, and ONLY the preprinted paper.

[slimslob]

Re: Multi-feeding due to static ???

Thanks Tim, I would have thought that too, but it's all 3 lower trays, less than 30k total on unit, and ONLY the preprinted paper.

Well if it is static you might want to check for a faulty machine ground. My experience is that static will usually cause chain feeding, I.E. each subsequent page will be shifted an inch or more. The distance needed to generate friction static between the sheets. The best way to reduce static is to raise the ambient humidity. I have heard of people setting bowls or pans of water either under or behind the copier.

[BLADE]

Re: Multi-feeding due to static ???

unlikely to be static before its even got in i would think

[luca72]

Re: Multi-feeding due to static ???

I feel like I've seen some threads relating to dealing with static before, but I can't seem to find them right now.

Got called in today to a customer that has been having a paper feed issue on their C3003 for some time, but it has seemingly gotten much worse.

They print quite a lot of single-sided letters on double-sided, pre-printed paper.

The machine has very low mileage (30K total), and I've replaced the feed rollers anyway, just to see if it helped. I've also tried all 3 lower paper trays. Nothing changed.

If they run 50 pages, it will feed 4-5 sheets at once on several occasions.
I don't have the exact specs of the paper, but it's not heavy at all, and not glossy either.
I tried using different paper type settings to slow down the process but with no change.

I'm pretty convinced that static is the culprit and the sheets are quite clinged together when the exit.
I'm wondering if there is a specific attachment from Ricoh that can be installed, or if there are any other Tech Tricks someone may be able to pass along to me on how to reduce the effects?

The office is completely carpeted, and I wondered if even placing a rubber mat underneath might help?
I never really had to deal with an issue like this, so open to any ideas.

Edit: Additional issue has been resolved

Thanks for any advice!

hi, if the rollers are new, and it does it from all drawers, I would try:

1 a stack of paper brought by me

2 use different rollers, for example, if you use af03-2094 and af03-1094, I would put af03-2049 and af03-1049, and vice versa, to see what happens

[K-3]

Re: Multi-feeding due to static ???

from what you said i believe the problem then is the pre-printed paper they are using, try fanning the paper more ( it might produce more static thou) attached some velcro strips to the paper feed guides and see if that will help separate the paper sheets.

[tonerhead]

Re: Multi-feeding due to static ???

My experiences with preprinted paper is similar. There is no where, anywhere in the manuals that pre-printed paper is acceptable to run in a copier, it is an inconvience that we have to deal with however.

Most of the time with pre-printed paper, it has been run through an ink process, then it is repackaged and sent to customer. The variables are how old was the paper when first used by the printers for pre-printing? Lots of customers buy pre-print in bulk, so how long have they had it? I know of one print shop who does this for customers, they have their press plates, do the printing on uber wide roll paper then cut and package it for end user. They have since switched over to UV ink, I have heard that this allows for better feed in copiers for the end user.


The other thing I have noticed with pre-print paper is the ink raises the paper grain making it harder to separate. As mentioned, I would try a couple different rollers, like perhaps the old school rubber ones from previous generations. I have also found thinner rollers that fit on the same hub may help. I used to swap other manufacturer rollers to ricoh hubs and vice versa.

[mikadonovan]

Re: Multi-feeding due to static ???

I recently have had to deal with an account that was experiencing DF multi sheet feeding on all of their machine. Problem was, I could run a SMC report from the machine itself, and it would feed that flawlessly, every time. After pulling out what hair I have left, I found that it was only occurring on certain packs of legal documents, and I believe they were produced by a HP printer (telltale sign is a massive amount of toner dusting off the originals and coating everything in the document feeder). The only way I could get those packs to feed right was to create a preset to feed them SEF. This issue sure did f$#k up my karma for a while. Machines were all '02 series with the SPDF.

[DRichard]

Re: Multi-feeding due to static ???

When it picks up 3 or more sheets at once it is almost always a bad torque limiter for the reverse roller. Part Number D1292783

I would be very surprised if "static" were to cause this problem as described...

[tsbservice]

Re: Multi-feeding due to static ???

Does normal paper multifeeds? I guess not. Agree with others The problem is with preprinted paper. I'm not sure but did you tried running it A4-R?

[sandmanmac]

Re: Multi-feeding due to static ???

Does normal paper multifeeds? I guess not. Agree with others The problem is with preprinted paper. I'm not sure but did you tried running it A4-R?

My Bad.
I mentioned they were "letters" but I didn't mention that it is actually Legal Size (8.5"x 14") paper so there's only one direction to run it.
I'm going to go back early next week and try a few of the suggestions and tricks offered.

Ideally, I'm hoping to be able to make it work through the bypass and convince them to do it that way.

Thanks for all the tips!