[Misc] IM C4500 Sporadic fixation failure

[UNICORNico]

Hello, dear colleagues in document management.

I put you in a situation, since I need a 2nd or 3rd opinion, since the problem has me somewhat confused.The IM C4500 device has been at the customer for just one year and eight months, since commissioning, always supplied with original toner and relevant firmware updates.work of the 1st and 2nd drawer, mainly in the sections related to the printer mode.We are not aware that in copier mode it generates any related failure.And the tension was also adjusted to the Fusion Unit springs (later I verified that according to the indications in the manual, its manipulation is discouraged), at that time through tests the adjustments seemed to be effective, but not quite.

The paper used by the client, with some exceptions, is usually 1st drawer A4 80gr.and 2nd drawer A3 80gr.As can be seen in the photographs provided, as the indicated adjustments were made, the defect was progressively corrected in both A4 and A3 (even more so in the latter), so at one point it was considered solved.e4bd5e679709.jpg64be228963ff.jpg1565eb4f0720.jpge4bd5e679709.jpeg - Google Drive64be228963ff.jpeg - Google Drive1565eb4f0720.jpeg - Google Drive

For some reason it only persists on A4 and not always, according to a customer first thing in the morning and at the end of the day the error is in the normal printing of text, not images, something that has me a bit baffled.

From what was observed in the manual concerning the 'Preventive', it is still far from necessary to replace any part, since it indicates 400k and it is still at half life. In a personal perception, the Pressure Roller, it seems to me that it needs to be more "robust", "rigid", to the touch it is perceived as squishy or at least that is my perception.

[Gift]

Re: IM C4500 Sporadic fixation failure

What SPs did you exactly modify to bump the temps?

You can also use the middlethick setting and see if it helps. It's also possible that the fuser unit itself is not OK and needs to be replaced.

[UNICORNico]

Re: IM C4500 Sporadic fixation failure

What SPs did you exactly modify to bump the temps?

You can also use the middlethick setting and see if it helps. It's also possible that the fuser unit itself is not OK and needs to be replaced.

[TonerMunkeh]

Re: IM C4500 Sporadic fixation failure

Playing with the fusing temps was a good idea but 80gsm is a little bit too thin to put laydown that heavy on. Try 100gsm.

[UNICORNico]

Re: IM C4500 Sporadic fixation failure

Playing with the fusing temps was a good idea but 80gsm is a little bit too thin to put laydown that heavy on. Try 100gsm.

I don't think the customer is willing to spend money on better quality paper. But I understand what you mean.

I forgot to comment on a piece of information, which I do not think is relevant. The "Energy Saving" option that exists for the U.Fusora (not the general configuration one), is deactivated, since at first, my logic was:


- 'If the system "turns off"/"disconnects" the U.Fusora several times in "considerable" periods of time, but then the system reacts normally, to print at its specific speed. This could cause the Fuser to cool down more times than necessary, thus generating that at specific times it does not reach its temperature on time, and therefore causing the failure.'


But this morning I go out to the client and it seems that the problem persists. I will try to report any news.

[copier tech]

Re: IM C4500 Sporadic fixation failure

We have been replacing fuser units prematurely on the IMC range for this issue. PM life is 400k but have seen them start to fail, as your has, around 250K.

Tried ajusting fuser temp but this doen't seem to help, only replaing the fuser unit resolves the issue.

[UNICORNico]

Re: IM C4500 Sporadic fixation failure

We have been replacing fuser units prematurely on the IMC range for this issue. PM life is 400k but have seen them start to fail, as your has, around 250K.

Tried ajusting fuser temp but this doen't seem to help, only replaing the fuser unit resolves the issue.

Oh...
On the one hand, it is appreciated to know that this problem is not something unique and particular, but something more "generalized". It is both good and bad news.


Was the situation reported to Ricoh Headquarters in your country? I think that if so, I think it is convenient to report the incident here too, so that Ricoh Spain knows about this problem. With the current European guarantee policy, were you able to assume the changes in guarantee? (currently 3 years old).


Another thing that worries me is that according to Factory indications in the Manual it says:

Captura de pantalla de 2023-08-22 12-36-18.png


In my first post I indicated that I performed manipulation of it. But I reverted when I noticed the notice, for fear of causing a bigger problem.


But ...
And in the tests this morning, manipulating this tension, it was possible to correct said defect (I still have doubts, despite the favorable result). Something that in my opinion is contradictory, between what the Manufacturer indicates and the results that a technician can perform, without paying attention to said restriction.
At the moment, I am waiting for the customer's call if the IM C4500 gives the problem again.

[Gift]

Re: IM C4500 Sporadic fixation failure

I think the number of premature fuser faults within a certain timespan is too low to argue with ricoh about compensation. They will just tell you the usual story about usage/covarage/age dependencies and at the end of a brainwash process you'll might think that you are lucky that this fuser was able to last this long under all this bad conditions....

If "tweaking" the factory setting for the pressure springs help and keep an old fuser alive post-warranty I'd just go for it and give a shit about what the manual says.Time will tell if this is a reliable method to extend the yield or not. As a matter of fact I'm going to write this down for my techs so they can check it out in case they run in to bad fuser performance so thank you for the hint

[UNICORNico]

Re: IM C4500 Sporadic fixation failure

I think the number of premature fuser faults within a certain timespan is too low to argue with ricoh about compensation. They will just tell you the usual story about usage/covarage/age dependencies and at the end of a brainwash process you'll might think that you are lucky that this fuser was able to last this long under all this bad conditions....

If "tweaking" the factory setting for the pressure springs help and keep an old fuser alive post-warranty I'd just go for it and give a shit about what the manual says.Time will tell if this is a reliable method to extend the yield or not. As a matter of fact I'm going to write this down for my techs so they can check it out in case they run in to bad fuser performance so thank you for the hint

On the IM C4500 model, it is still under warranty (as indicated in the bulletins to Distributors, this guarantee for the customer is subject to maintenance by the Seller/Distributor), it was installed NEW (unsealed from its original box) in the dependencies of the client, it takes a year and eight REAL months. I want to clarify this in case at any time I could have expressed it wrong.


That is why I comment on the issue of guarantees, to contrast situations.


At no time have old parts been used for repairs or tests on this device. All the parts are the ones that came standard, except the Yellow PCDU, due to a toner processing problem, generating lumps and the absence of the developer component in the Magentic Rollers.


Despite the situation discussed, the device has had a normal and impeccable operation (according to the Company Management).

[Gift]

Re: IM C4500 Sporadic fixation failure

Ah OK interesting, can you share this bulletin, perhaps via private message? I really like to check this out.

As by now we have an agreement with ricoh that we're going to receive some annual refund depending on how much money we spent on parts. This refund is suppose to cover our claims and save time of course since you don't have to start a warranty case every time. Still you should make yourself a list with the more pricier items to know that the refund is going to cover your write-offs.

Between us and our customers we only do "business to business" with 12 month warranty for parts. And if something failures prematurely we do just partial compensations to the customers. Like if a unit reched 80% from it's target we usually give away no compensation at all.

[UNICORNico]

Re: IM C4500 Sporadic fixation failure

Ah OK interesting, can you share this bulletin, perhaps via private message? I really like to check this out.

As by now we have an agreement with ricoh that we're going to receive some annual refund depending on how much money we spent on parts. This refund is suppose to cover our claims and save time of course since you don't have to start a warranty case every time. Still you should make yourself a list with the more pricier items to know that the refund is going to cover your write-offs.

Between us and our customers we only do "business to business" with 12 month warranty for parts. And if something failures prematurely we do just partial compensations to the customers. Like if a unit reched 80% from it's target we usually give away no compensation at all.

Interesting x2.

In Spain, or at least that is how it is stated in our company, the issue of guarantees goes differently, and it changes especially with the new European regulation (or that is what has been said here https://cec.consumo.gob.es/CEC/comun...ntias_2022.htm[in spanish, sorry]), all articles must have 3 years minimum warranty nationwide along with an increase in the availability of parts supply for repair/replacement from 5 to 10 years.

Regarding the Guarantees bulletin between Ricoh Spain (National Delegation) and its Authorized Distributors, I will consult it, since it is an agreement between the Management of the Company and the Commercial Delegate of Ricoh Spain, so I do not know if said document can be shared or obtained. .


I don't know if this team would be better to treat it in a New Post, to treat it more carefully and not divert the subject too much.


Does it seem good to you?

[Gift]

Re: IM C4500 Sporadic fixation failure

Ah yes I understand and I found some articles about that 3 year warranty in spain. But from my understanding this is only mandatory fot "B2C" sales.

[UNICORNico]

Re: IM C4500 Sporadic fixation failure

- - - Quick update - - -
At the moment and according to what has been stated in this post, it seems that the "solutions" are working out satisfactorily. At the moment, the client has not reported any quality problems again.
I still have certain doubts, which have already been raised and I am concerned that something solvable in such a "simple" way, will be delayed due to restrictions in the official indications.

[UNICORNico]

Re: IM C4500 Sporadic fixation failure

- - - Update - - -
Bad news.
The problem persists. It can be confirmed that it is only with black prints, that it is sporadic, with a simple job (example: sheet with normal text, without images, the mass within the correct ranges) generating the failure at the ends of the sheet of paper.
Intuition tells me that it must be a problem with the Pressure Roller (perception that I indicated earlier), since I don't want to run the risk of raising the temperature or the pressure of the spring damping system further.

[GIUBOSS]

Re: IM C4500 Sporadic fixation failure

In some I had to correct it to 10 degrees and more to get a good fix. I once found that it was the developer loading too much toner and not fixing it well.