MX-3100N corosion caused by chlorine in the atomosphere

[ecarats]

Hello,
I have an MX_3100N that has corosion on nearly all electrical contacts (dv units to boards), shafts, balancers, motors, clutches and hinges. It only has about 40,000 copies. This machine is in a back office of a condo lobby with a large fountain that uses clorine to keep clean. Their computers and other equipment are also rusting.
Any ideas as to what I can do to protect the copier would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[vincent64]

Hello,
I have an MX_3100N that has corosion on nearly all electrical contacts (dv units to boards), shafts, balancers, motors, clutches and hinges. It only has about 40,000 copies. This machine is in a back office of a condo lobby with a large fountain that uses clorine to keep clean. Their computers and other equipment are also rusting.
Any ideas as to what I can do to protect the copier would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

You cant, clorine is a poison, and it will rust most any metal near it, used to keep a drum of that stuff in a garage opsite end from the work bench, within 6 months every tool had rust on them.
The copier is not going to survive even if you move it, to much oxidation on componets in it.
Seen this a lot after Hurricanes Rita and Ike.

[Dark Helmet]

Sounds like a insurance claim

[OMD-227]

Thats really interesting. Never heard of or seen this before..... then again, dont have a machine near a chlorine fountain.

Would love to see some pics if you have them.

I'd run it until it dies. Vincent & Lawrence are on the right track quite obviously.

[ecarats]

Thanks everyone. That's pretty much what I was thinking. Spent 6 hours Friday cleaning, adjusting and anything else I could think of. Still just blank paper. No residual image on the drums. Laser is good. All shutters open properly. Sim 8-1 and 8-2 show low voltage readings. Corosion is causing too much resistance I'm sure. If I do find a way to get it working, in a couple months it's going to happen again.

The cholrine keeping the water fountain clean I am sure is the reason. We have hundreds of copiers on the Gulf of Mexico shore line with no trouble. The only difference is the fountain.

I don't think their insurance will do anything. Sort of like wrecking your car on purpose. Then asking insurance to pay you for it. We are not the originating sales dealer. It came from another territory. They have already replaced the machine once about 6 months ago. It was about 5 months old at that time. We are the servicing dealer. Our Vice President of Service is calling the sales dealer Monday to discuss the issue.

I have links below for wazza or anyone else interested in viewing them.

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1820.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1821.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1822.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1823.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1824.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1825.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1826.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1827.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1828.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1829.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1830.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1831.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1832.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1833.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1834.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1835.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1836.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1837.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1838.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1839.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1840.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1841.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~deancpc/pwpimages/DSC_1842.jpg

This is the first time I have had to ask a question. I have always been able to do a search to find the answer I needed.
Thanks again everyone.

[OMD-227]

ouch!

I love the clutches all rusted up. That is really cool, and sorta funny at the same time.

I really feel for you man. Just keep telling the client that there is nothing YOU can do, because sure enough, someone will try and blame the tech looking after the machine.

Run that thing into the ground. I'd also think about washing your hands really well after leaving that place. Dont rub your eyes or pick ya nose!! I know its only chlorine, but that is way more concentrated than normal to be doing that much damage in that amount of time.

[Copier Doc]

I agree with wazza, unbelievable photos, very interesting & thanks for sharing them.
You have my sympathies though, good luck.

[Eric1968]

Just show your customer the installation requirements. They tell you that you should never place your machine in a room with corrosive gasses.

[vincent64]

What we used to have was either HTH or some other pool chlorine like that, its granular, comes in a 50 pound drum, use it to shock the pool, I think it is called calcium hypochlorite, and there is sodium hypochlorite also, both just as bad, one used in pools one used in your washing machine.
Both will do a number to metal of most any kind. find a MSDS on the stuff, its bad stuff...
And I would not have spend that lone on any machine that close to a fountain, its a insurance claim like Lawrence said, and if they dont have insurance, a real expensive lesson where not to install a copier.
Just looked at some of the pic, the rust you see on locator pins and flywheels, and clutches, you will find on every pin and every connector in that machine, its toast.

[vincent64]

[QUOTE=ecarats;192509]Thanks everyone. That's pretty much what I was thinking. Spent 6 hours Friday cleaning, adjusting and anything else I could think of. Still just blank paper. No residual image on the drums. Laser is good. All shutters open properly. Sim 8-1 and 8-2 show low voltage readings. Corosion is causing too much resistance I'm sure. If I do find a way to get it working, in a couple months it's going to happen again.

The cholrine keeping the water fountain clean I am sure is the reason. We have hundreds of copiers on the Gulf of Mexico shore line with no trouble. The only difference is the fountain.

Where on the Gulf coast?
Main difference is chlorine comes out of the water as the foutain sparays, do they keep the chlorine near the foutain?
You will see the issue with salt air, just not as fast, I think pool chlorine is listed as a crosive also I seem to recall.

[blackcat4866]

You've been able to document the corrosion on the steel components quite clearly, but the corrosion that's disabling the machine is on the gold, brass & copper contacts providing charge (dev bias, primary, separation, fuser bias, ... probably all four).

Just like a machine with water damage, it's just not cost effective to replace everything affected by the corrosion. If they end up buying a replacement machine from your company you'll need a sign off, identifying the atmospheric chlorine as voiding any warranty, and not offering a service agreement.

This is one of those learning experiences, and thanks for letting us all learn from it. Great pix! =^..^=

[ecarats]

Thanks again, everyone. We are on the northern Gulf of mexico between talahhassee and mobile. This is hte only machine accting this wasy. All it does now is shoot blank papers. It will send faxes and send scans. nothing comes through the print engine just blank paper. I want my mx-c401 loaner as soon as possible bfore this starts happening to it. My VP of Service is calling the sales dealer (he is out of territory) to inform him of every thing. I want to take their machine back and say "bu bye now". Just my thoughts But I'll have to wait till I hear back from my VP of Service befroe making the next mvoe.
Thanks,ecarats

[OMD-227]

Well, theres a whole range of diagnostic tests you could start performing to work out why its now shooting blanks, but you need to consider if this is worth the trouble.
Theres an obvious engine problem, and with the amount of rust & internal damage, could be anything from HV/MC board failure down to something like the LSU shutter solenoid seizing up.
Run a process control 44-06 & 44-26 and see if you get any HV errors. Check the dev stir values 25-01. If these all test ok, then check the shutter operation in sim 6-01.
Its usually something simple, but in your particular case....... I'm thinking twice on everything.

Get your loan machine out of there ASAP. No doubt about it. The damage done to the 3100 is proof that this place is bad. Who will be paying for the C401 when it goes down too? You should just go straight to the top management with the photos you have, demand an executive decision on the spot and go get your machine. This is so straight-forward its not funny. I didnt know you had a loaner in there too.
Shooting yourself in the foot????? Why waste more time & $$ on this place.

[jonhiker]

In seems also that the chlorine level in that fountain is way to high. Just 5PPM of househould chlorine bleach will keep water clean.

[ecarats]

I got my loaner back. The selling dealer dealer delivered a new machine to the customer yesterday. We gave the dealer their machine back. This makes the second replacement (not including loaners) machine at this location in about a year. Total 3 machines. They are no longer under a service contract. The selling dealer will be paying us for time and materials. Boy, are they going to pay. It's a large contract for them.
Thanks again.