Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty

[subaro]

Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty

This is from the service manual for the designjet 5000p.



Ink Supply Station:
The Ink Supply Station is connected to theInk Cartridge supplies, and controls air pressure (pump, sensorand valve), as well as monitoring ink levels and the supply latchsensor.

one step closer. the ISS monitors ink levels, but the mystery is still the technical details.

These are the key functions of the ISS:
Ink Cartridges support and location.
Limit creep of cartridge side walls.
Avoid incorrect insertion of colors and inks.
Contain ink from leaks.
Support the Air Pressurization System (APS).

[Kiran Otter]

Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty

Are we talking 5x00 inks, or Z3200 inks as in your original post? They're two different animals.

On a printer that uses air pressure, it has no idea how much ink is in the cartridge, other than what the chip tells it, based on the use.

Thanks to abb1, we know the T/Z/500/800/etc 69/130ml cartridges with the pump.. apparently have some way (aside from the chip) to know the cartridge is empty. (I'm still skeptical of this until I see how it's done, but the service manual does mention it.)

But in general, it's simple math. It's why you can't refill these cartridges; the chip will still report it being empty, regardless of the amount of ink in it.

I don't know how else to explain it.

Kiran

[subaro]

Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty

Yes, i do realize that they are two diffrent machines and ink flow sytems are diffrent. But i was thinking the method of ink levels detection might be similar. just curious there. still like theengel, would like to know how the levels are detected for sure. HP hidden information ?, or do they think it is not necessary for us to know.

[theengel]

Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty

So if you're getting an empty ink message, it HAS to be the cartridge not reading or someone refilled without replacing the chip.

[aab1]

Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty

Thanks to abb1, we know the T/Z/500/800/etc 69/130ml cartridges with the pump.. apparently have some way (aside from the chip) to know the cartridge is empty. (I'm still skeptical of this until I see how it's done, but the service manual does mention it.)

But in general, it's simple math. It's why you can't refill these cartridges; the chip will still report it being empty, regardless of the amount of ink in it.

I don't know how else to explain it.

Kiran

There has to be a sensor to know when the rubber bulb has collapsed meaning the pressure is gone from the ink being used so it knows to release the pistons and push them back in (the printer makes a very distinct sound when this happens). The printer knows the cartridges are empty if the rubber bulbs remain collapsed after 2-3 attempts of releasing the pistons and pushing them back in.

Because it uses this method to determine when a cartridge is definitely empty you can refill these cartridges as much as you want without ever changing the chip, it will simply read as "low" but not empty. I know this because as I said I connected 1 liter ink bottles to my printers that used this ink system and I ran several liters of ink through each cartridges without ever changing them or the chips.

I'm curious about the ones that use air pressure, I never had any like that. What printer models use this and could you post a page from the service manual for those as you did for the other type?

Thanks

[Kiran Otter]

Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty

Wow, that's cool about being able to refill them. I never knew. I assumed that once it was empty, the chip was flagged and that was the end for the cartridge.

I have noticed the bongos have a sort of cover on them that's independent of the actual piston that pushes up underneath.. maybe it can 'see' if that fails to come back down when the plunger doesn't reinflate.

As I mentioned, the 1050C, 5000/5500, 4000/4500, Z6100, T7100/T7200 and likely others I can't recall off the top of my head.. all use the air-pressured ink cartridges.

I've attached an except from the 5500 service manual from the functional overview.

Kiran

[aab1]

Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty

Wow, that's cool about being able to refill them. I never knew. I assumed that once it was empty, the chip was flagged and that was the end for the cartridge.

I have noticed the bongos have a sort of cover on them that's independent of the actual piston that pushes up underneath.. maybe it can 'see' if that fails to come back down when the plunger doesn't reinflate.

As I mentioned, the 1050C, 5000/5500, 4000/4500, Z6100, T7100/T7200 and likely others I can't recall off the top of my head.. all use the air-pressured ink cartridges.

I've attached an except from the 5500 service manual from the functional overview.

Kiran

Thanks, that air pressure system seems a bit over-complicated compared to the ones that pump the ink directly. Was that an older generation before the ones that pump the ink directly?

Did those printers make a compressor type sound when they were pressurizing the air?

I think the ones that pump ink directly seem like a much better design. I don't know why HP abandoned that ink system in the Officejet Pro line, that's the main reason I finally switched over to laser (and the fact the new paper pickup couldn't pick up card stock at all despite the specs saying it supports card stock).

Thanks

[Kiran Otter]

Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty

The APS existed in the 1050C before the 500/800 came around, so I'd say it came first. I'm not sure about the OfficeJets.. I don't work on those. If it uses those skinny cartridges that are similar to the 69ml inks the 500/800 use, then I'd guess they came out at the same time as the 500/800.

I can't really say why they favor one design over the other; perhaps it's used in the bigger machines because more ink is used, or has a longer distance to travel.. only HP knows for sure.

The little compressor barely makes any sound when it's running. And once it reaches pressure it stops. You certainly can't hear it over the rest of the printer and vacuum fans.

The APS is still in use in all of the 'big' Designjets, like the T7200. http://www8.hp.com/us/en/large-forma...ers/t7200.html

Of course if you get into the Scitex line, they use an electric ink pump.

Kiran

[Kiran Otter]

Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty

By the way, does this look over-complicated?

z6100_iss.jpg

[Iowatech]

Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty

By the way, does this look over-complicated?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28798[/ATTACH]

Um, for what it is worth, aab1 was enough of a pox and murrain here back in the day that they were the first to be put on my ignore list.
I don't think aab1 is worth your effort, but that's just my take.

[kahner]

SOLVED: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty

Well, it took me a while, and reading through other posts here about the issue helped me figure it out. It seems like the printer has a manual sensor that pushed up against the black rubber bulb on the cartridge. For whatever reason, I guess it wasn't getting the necessary pressure when it tested. So just put some tape over the hole in the plastic cartridge over the bulb and bam! no more empty cartridge error.

[aab1]

Re: SOLVED: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty

Well, it took me a while, and reading through other posts here about the issue helped me figure it out. It seems like the printer has a manual sensor that pushed up against the black rubber bulb on the cartridge. For whatever reason, I guess it wasn't getting the necessary pressure when it tested. So just put some tape over the hole in the plastic cartridge over the bulb and bam! no more empty cartridge error.

While that will solve the error, it actually prevents the pump from working which will likely lead to the printhead associated with that color to fail.

I didn't go back through the entire thread to remind me of what was said but I would assume a new cartridge would solve the issue, did you make sure to check the cartridge wasn't actually empty and try a new one?

[nmfaxman]

Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty

[aab1]

Re: Designjet Z3200 says new ink empty

It may seem like it, but not really since the included cartridges are normally less than half full. And it's only low end printers that cost less than new cartridges.