HP Designjet XL 3600DR PS Service Manual

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 1
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous template Next
  • blackcat4866
    Master Of The Obvious

    Site Contributor
    10,000+ Posts
    • Jul 2007
    • 22702
    #1

    HP Designjet XL 3600DR PS Service Manual

    Does anybody have this manual?

    I have an interesting issue. When you switch from roll2 to roll1 the paper in roll2 does not park correctly winding the paper back past the sensor and rollers, then shows roll2 empty. When you open the lower tray the paper has been rewound. If you load only roll2 and feed exclusively roll2 it works fine. Only when roll2 parks is there an issue. I suspect the reflective sensor in the roll2 tray responding slowly.

    If I understand this correctly, when paper is inserted to the sensor, the feed motor engages to advance the paper a few inches beyond the edge of the tray, then the rewinder pulls the paper back to a spot before the sensor, but after the feed rollers. The part I don't understand, is: there is nothing holding the paper in place when it isn't driving. The feed rollers swivel in to contact the paper when driving (I expected some sort of torque limiter here, but alas none), but these same rollers fall back the moment the driving stops. And the rewinder drive turns very easily, I expected a little more back-tension. I expected some resistance at one or both of these drive units, but there is none. Functioning roll1 works exactly the same way.

    My best guess right now is that the photoreflective sensor is responding slowly, so that by the time the rewinder stops, the paper is below the feed rollers and cannot be retrieved without reloading. Does that sound right? =^..^=
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=
    Tags: feed, paper, roll2, rollers, sensor
    • blackcat4866
      Master Of The Obvious

      Site Contributor
      10,000+ Posts
      • Jul 2007
      • 22702
      #2
      Re: HP Designjet XL 3600DR PS Service Manual

      Anyone? =^..^=
      If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
      1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
      2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
      3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
      4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
      5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

      blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

        Comment

        • blackcat4866
          Master Of The Obvious

          Site Contributor
          10,000+ Posts
          • Jul 2007
          • 22702
          #3
          Re: HP Designjet XL 3600DR PS Service Manual

          Perhaps unrelated, but I have recorded errors 0086-0004-0092, 0086-0004-0080
          =^..^=
          If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
          1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
          2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
          3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
          4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
          5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

          blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

            Comment

            • mga
              Copier Technician

              Site Contributor
              1,000+ Posts
              • Dec 2010
              • 1393
              #4
              Re: HP Designjet XL 3600DR PS Service Manual

              Originally posted by blackcat4866
              Anyone? =^..^=
              I will get it tomorrow for you
              Regards Mark

              FOR TRADE AND END USER SERVICE CALLS PLEASE VISIT WEB SITE FOR CONTACT DETAILS. COVERING GREATER LONDON {UK} AND ALL SURROUNDING COUNTIES.

              RICOH, CANON, KYOCERA, KONICA, SHARP, HP/SAMSUNG BROTHER, LEXMARK.

              https://copierservices.simdif.com

                Comment

                • blackcat4866
                  Master Of The Obvious

                  Site Contributor
                  10,000+ Posts
                  • Jul 2007
                  • 22702
                  #5
                  Re: HP Designjet XL 3600DR PS Service Manual

                  Many thanks! =^..^=
                  If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                  1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                  2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                  3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                  4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                  5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                  blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                    Comment

                    • mga
                      Copier Technician

                      Site Contributor
                      1,000+ Posts
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 1393
                      #6
                      Re: HP Designjet XL 3600DR PS Service Manual

                      Originally posted by blackcat4866
                      Many thanks! =^..^=
                      Pm sent service manual
                      Regards Mark

                      FOR TRADE AND END USER SERVICE CALLS PLEASE VISIT WEB SITE FOR CONTACT DETAILS. COVERING GREATER LONDON {UK} AND ALL SURROUNDING COUNTIES.

                      RICOH, CANON, KYOCERA, KONICA, SHARP, HP/SAMSUNG BROTHER, LEXMARK.

                      https://copierservices.simdif.com

                        Comment

                        • blackcat4866
                          Master Of The Obvious

                          Site Contributor
                          10,000+ Posts
                          • Jul 2007
                          • 22702
                          #7
                          Re: HP Designjet XL 3600DR PS Service Manual

                          Originally posted by blackcat4866
                          Perhaps unrelated, but I have recorded errors 0086-0004-0092, 0086-0004-0080
                          =^..^=
                          Entirely unrelated. The machine detected no printhead at bootup. Probably every new setup stores these codes. =^..^=
                          If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                          1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                          2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                          3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                          4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                          5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                          blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                            Comment

                            • blackcat4866
                              Master Of The Obvious

                              Site Contributor
                              10,000+ Posts
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 22702
                              #8
                              Re: HP Designjet XL 3600DR PS Service Manual

                              When I had first heard of the issue, I had suggested that maybe the wrong core size roll had been loaded. My first impression was that it might be a rewinder error. On various machines, I've seen the paper unload of it's own volition, then ask to load paper.

                              Diagnostic mode 02002 confirms this. The diagnostic mode measures something called Low to Normal force, range 1.5 to 9.2 (units?) of acceptable values. This one reads 9.8 ... what? I don't know, but it's too much or to little, outside the acceptable range. I'm ordering the Rewinder & Picker Motor Assy.

                              Other than the two typical setup errors there are no other errors. Thanks Mark. I'll follow up later. =^..^=
                              If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                              1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                              2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                              3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                              4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                              5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                              blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                Comment

                                • blackcat4866
                                  Master Of The Obvious

                                  Site Contributor
                                  10,000+ Posts
                                  • Jul 2007
                                  • 22702
                                  #9
                                  Re: HP Designjet XL 3600DR PS Service Manual

                                  Now I know a little more ... and a little less, all at the same time:

                                  The bottom tray isn't too difficult to get off, just heavy and awkward, and the machine is touching file cabinets on both sides. There couldn't be less space to work. Two new rewinder motor assemblies, and both still fail the same diagnostic 02002 by 9.8 and 10.6, and the symptoms haven't changed ...

                                  ... but I tried three different paper rolls 24" @ ~150LF, 30" @ 500LF, and 30" @ 20LF. I though maybe width or weight of the paper roll might make a difference. Nope, any roll in roll2 location unloads after a roll switch, but works fine if you continue to use roll2. Roll1 location continues to work regardless of size/roll weight.

                                  The failure happens when switching rolls from source roll1 to parked roll2. AFAIK roll2 is properly parked and holding the paper. Roll2 feeds paper up the paper path displaying message "Resuming Roll2", then "Checking Paper", then "Aligning Paper" (sometime twice or three times), then "Cancelling Load" or "Unloading Paper". The light on the tray2 goes red. Roll1 resumes normally without the aligning, then prints the job regardless of width.

                                  So I'm theorizing that the aligning is part of the issue. It's a longer paper path from roll2, so I can imagine the need to re-align ... and it's probably using a media sensor on the carriage like other Designjets, so if the sensor works for roll1 it should also work for roll2. There are only two errors stored, resulting from initializing without a printhead, what you might expect on setup. I do not understand how the machine can push roll2 paper vertically uphill more than 24" without assist of vertical path rollers, yet it does.

                                  Does any of this ring a bell? =^..^=
                                  If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                  1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                  2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                  3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                  4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                  5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                  blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                    Comment

                                    • blackcat4866
                                      Master Of The Obvious

                                      Site Contributor
                                      10,000+ Posts
                                      • Jul 2007
                                      • 22702
                                      #10
                                      Re: HP Designjet XL 3600DR PS Service Manual

                                      Follow up: HP tech support is pointing me towards the Clean-Out Media Sensor. The theory is that roll1 does not use this sensor, so remains unaffected. We shall see. =^..^=
                                      If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                      1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                      2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                      3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                      4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                      5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                      blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                        Comment

                                        • blackcat4866
                                          Master Of The Obvious

                                          Site Contributor
                                          10,000+ Posts
                                          • Jul 2007
                                          • 22702
                                          #11
                                          Re: HP Designjet XL 3600DR PS Service Manual

                                          More information ... and I know even less than before.

                                          The roll2 media sensor made no difference, and detects paper present/paper absent in diagnostic mode.
                                          The roll2 rewinder is now passing the diagnostic. I have no idea why.

                                          I figured out that I can key the top door and watch the paper passage during the "Unloading". My abbreviated test is to:
                                          Load roll2
                                          Load roll1 (roll2 now parked)
                                          Print an internal print (like Usage Page) from roll2.

                                          So what usually happens is:
                                          Roll1 parks.
                                          Roll2 feeds paper up the vertical path.
                                          Slight hesitation when paper trips the clean-out media sensor.
                                          Pinch rollers raise ~2mm.
                                          Paper advances to ~13mm from the star wheel guide, and pinch rollers lower.
                                          Simultaneously paper advances into the star wheel guide and starts measuring the left edge location x3
                                          Paper advances ~200mm then repeats the left edge measurement
                                          If it doesn't like the measurement, the pinch rollers raise/lower to release any buckle.
                                          Paper backs up ~200mm then repeats the left edge measurement
                                          Carriage moves in ~100mm and the paper advances x3 edging past the line sensor
                                          I think this is where it goes wrong:

                                          When it fails, the paper backs down into the roll2 tray and displays "Unloading Roll".

                                          When it's successful, printing starts.

                                          I am suspecting the Line Sensor-Tetris, or Carriage PWB, or Engine PWB ... except for the fact that roll1 uses exactly the same paper, line sensor, PWB's and always detects left edge and leading edge correctly. We'll see what tech support has to say. =^..^=
                                          If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                          1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                          2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                          3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                          4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                          5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                          blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                            Comment

                                            • blackcat4866
                                              Master Of The Obvious

                                              Site Contributor
                                              10,000+ Posts
                                              • Jul 2007
                                              • 22702
                                              #12
                                              Re: HP Designjet XL 3600DR PS Service Manual

                                              Another cross-off:
                                              The Pinches Assembly (formed aluminum frame with ~150 star wheels) is not warped, and raises and lowers appropriately in service mode. I suspect that the pinches assembly is too far down the path to be a cause. Sometimes the paper roll does not get that far. There's about 10 seconds from the time the paper edge clears the grit roller, until it fails some part of the queueing up process.

                                              Tech support provided me with the latest version of the manual. The older version showed photos of the Pagewide XL paper deck with 2 rolls per tray. Somewhere along the way it got simplified to one roll per tray.

                                              I got bumped up a level in tech support. I wonder if that means the fixes will be more difficult? =^..^=
                                              If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                              1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                              2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                              3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                              4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                              5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                              blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                                Comment

                                                • blackcat4866
                                                  Master Of The Obvious

                                                  Site Contributor
                                                  10,000+ Posts
                                                  • Jul 2007
                                                  • 22702
                                                  #13
                                                  Re: HP Designjet XL 3600DR PS Service Manual

                                                  If anybody is interested I got bumped up to Engineering in Spain.

                                                  Firmware version 4_20_21.1 seems to solve this issue for the three standard paper roll sizes 24", 30", & 36", in whatever configuration you like: upper or lower. I believe the most current firmware is version 7_21_20.1
                                                  There's a version 5, but but I don't know if it presents symptoms or not.

                                                  And I don't know how custom sizes, ISO sizes, and less standard sizes like 15" and ANSI widths are affected.
                                                  I'll be interested if you can add any detail. =^..^=
                                                  Last edited by blackcat4866; 08-19-2021, 12:34 AM.
                                                  If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                                  1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                                  2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                                  3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                                  4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                                  5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                                  blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                                    Comment

                                                    • blackcat4866
                                                      Master Of The Obvious

                                                      Site Contributor
                                                      10,000+ Posts
                                                      • Jul 2007
                                                      • 22702
                                                      #14
                                                      Re: HP Designjet XL 3600DR PS Service Manual

                                                      Just to confirm, this issue exists in firmware versions:

                                                      CYCLOPSMARS_7_21_20.1.fmw
                                                      CYCLOPSMARS_8_21_39.11.rfu.fmw
                                                      CYCLOPSMARS_8_21_39.14.rfu.fmw

                                                      Some machines work with versions:
                                                      CYCLOPSMARS_4_20_21.1.rfu.fmw
                                                      CYCLOPSMARS_1_19_18.6.rfu.fmw

                                                      It's fixed in version:
                                                      CYCLOPSMARS_8_21_43.13.rfu.fmw

                                                      =^..^=
                                                      If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                                      1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                                      2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                                      3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                                      4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                                      5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                                      blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                                        Comment

                                                        Previous template Next
                                                        Working...