[CQ] IMC2000 light blacks

[mrwho]

Hello there.

Tomorrow I'm going to drive a long way (well - about 150km, it's a small country I live in) to check an IMC2000 with a total counter of around 55k, where the customer complains that the blacks are more gray than black.

I instructed via the phone for him to make a forced toner supply K a couple of times. Quality improved, but soon returned to before.

Besides pcu, what do you recommend? Any cheat sheet you guys have for this situation?

I usually replenish toner and then reinit the td sensor, but I'd love to hear other tips from you.

Cheers!

[copyaction]

Re: IMC2000 light blacks

PCU is a good start but also are they using genuine Ricoh toner?

[Gift]

Re: IMC2000 light blacks

Seems all "budget" A3 MPC/IMC share this problem. Make shure everything is clean, especially ID sensors. Try ACC. If the result won't improve enough you can use the force toner method and tell the machine a new dev unit has been set, then turn it off and on. This method should last longer. Paper quality/smoothness is also important. Latest FW won't hurt.

PCU yield is 60k BK / 48k COL but unless the OPC surface looks messy or the stuff is too old they should last twice the yield (I bet the OPC material is the same like the long yield PCUs in higher ranges - these cheap ones just don't have a wax bar). On the other hand 150km seems to far away for experiments so I'd probably swap the black PCU and depending on the color counter C/M/Y PCUs too and don't dispose the old stuff since it's probably good enough for low demanding customers^^

[slimslob]

Re: IMC2000 light blacks

Seems all "budget" A3 MPC/IMC share this problem. Make shure everything is clean, especially ID sensors. Try ACC. If the result won't improve enough you can use the force toner method and tell the machine a new dev unit has been set, then turn it off and on. This method should last longer. Paper quality/smoothness is also important. Latest FW won't hurt.

PCU yield is 60k BK / 48k COL but unless the OPC surface looks messy or the stuff is too old they should last twice the yield (I bet the OPC material is the same like the long yield PCUs in higher ranges - these cheap ones just don't have a wax bar). On the other hand 150km seems to far away for experiments so I'd probably swap the black PCU and depending on the color counter C/M/Y PCUs too and don't dispose the old stuff since it's probably good enough for low demanding customers^^

One thing to remember about PM counter expected yields. They are based on an average job size of 7 to 10 pages. Most "budget" machines are often used for only 1 or 2 page jobs. This leads to additional wear on components.

Also is the 55K total counter the B/W total are for everything. Remember true K PCDU count is B/W count plus color count.

[emiliorsg]

Re: IMC2000 light blacks

For the cost I would change the entire bk PCDU because there is very little difference compared to the PCU, and more at that distance from the customer.

[8T2]

Re: IMC2000 light blacks

MPc2003/2004 and IMc200 range all suffer from this in my experience so far. Time for a new PCU.

Force toner supply works until the machine does process control then it de-tones itself and then it's back to light prints again. And the same thing happens when you do manual density adjustment.

Depending on condition of drum I have had some success increasing SP3201-002 (minimum density or something I can't remember exactly now)

If I recall correctly default is about 2% on the IMc2000 and I bump it up to 5 or 6.

Sent from my SM-A305F using Tapatalk

[copier tech]

Re: IMC2000 light blacks

Hello there.

Tomorrow I'm going to drive a long way (well - about 150km, it's a small country I live in) to check an IMC2000 with a total counter of around 55k, where the customer complains that the blacks are more gray than black.

I instructed via the phone for him to make a forced toner supply K a couple of times. Quality improved, but soon returned to before.

Besides pcu, what do you recommend? Any cheat sheet you guys have for this situation?

I usually replenish toner and then reinit the td sensor, but I'd love to hear other tips from you.

Cheers!

A great improvement with the IMC range the PCDU is consumable item. If your client can wait ship one out for him/her to fit.

[copyaction]

Re: IMC2000 light blacks

Remember true K PCDU count is B/W count plus color count.

Great point!

[mrwho]

Re: IMC2000 light blacks

PCU is a good start but also are they using genuine Ricoh toner?

I believe so, but that's the first thing I'm going to check once I get there.

I'd probably swap the black PCU and depending on the color counter C/M/Y PCUs too and don't dispose the old stuff since it's probably good enough for low demanding customers^^

I was thinking of that, and I also keep the old units when they are "reasonable" usualy to use as "testing units" to troubleshoot machines.

One thing to remember about PM counter expected yields. They are based on an average job size of 7 to 10 pages. Most "budget" machines are often used for only 1 or 2 page jobs. This leads to additional wear on components.

Thanks for remembering me that.

Also is the 55K total counter the B/W total are for everything. Remember true K PCDU count is B/W count plus color count.

Yeah, that I know - 55k is total counter (bw+color).

For the cost I would change the entire bk PCDU because there is very little difference compared to the PCU, and more at that distance from the customer.

Yeeeeaahh... not gonna happen...

Depending on condition of drum I have had some success increasing SP3201-002 (minimum density or something I can't remember exactly now)

If I recall correctly default is about 2% on the IMc2000 and I bump it up to 5 or 6.

Nice. Thanks.

A great improvement with the IMC range the PCDU is consumable item. If your client can wait ship one out for him/her to fit.

Sometimes yes, but usually not for all customers (this one being one).

[mrwho]

Re: IMC2000 light blacks

Well, it was a strange one.

First thing I did was check the K PCU - was 2,5K away of reaching EOL, but not bad looking. The PCDU back plate was also present, and the toner was OEM.

Then I updated the firmware, clean the ID sensors, run all process control SPs and calibrate colors.

When I printed the counter, it had a glorious pitch-black triangle. I was happy.

Then, as the PCU was almost reaching 60k, I replaced it, taking care to input the SP data on the cheat sheet and resetting the counter, turning off the machine and then turning it on after replacement.

And the printouts were gray again! Come on!!!

After that, try as I might, I couldn't make them pitch black again, even after force feeding k toner. I tried all the hints about changing SP3201 and reinitializing the TD sensors, but no dice. In the end the only thing that made things marginally better was increasing SP-3620-01, but even that didn't make the prints as good as the first time.

In the end I had to leave it as it was (it was better than when I began after all) but I suspect image transfer.

I need to dig around, but if someone can think of something, I'm open to suggestions.

Cheers!

[Gift]

Re: IMC2000 light blacks

Well, it was a strange one.

First thing I did was check the K PCU - was 2,5K away of reaching EOL, but not bad looking. The PCDU back plate was also present, and the toner was OEM.

Then I updated the firmware, clean the ID sensors, run all process control SPs and calibrate colors.

When I printed the counter, it had a glorious pitch-black triangle. I was happy.

Then, as the PCU was almost reaching 60k, I replaced it, taking care to input the SP data on the cheat sheet and resetting the counter, turning off the machine and then turning it on after replacement.

And the printouts were gray again! Come on!!!

After that, try as I might, I couldn't make them pitch black again, even after force feeding k toner. I tried all the hints about changing SP3201 and reinitializing the TD sensors, but no dice. In the end the only thing that made things marginally better was increasing SP-3620-01, but even that didn't make the prints as good as the first time.

In the end I had to leave it as it was (it was better than when I began after all) but I suspect image transfer.

I need to dig around, but if someone can think of something, I'm open to suggestions.

Cheers!

LOL - it's strange that you got it to print a pitch black triangle - it should be somewhat black-ish but not too dark because this series will never keep this density over time and you will end up in discussions with the customer. The current state (better than before but not perfect) sounds like a more realistic state what this engline is able to maintain.....for some time^^

[Mark Bbb]

Re: IMC2000 light blacks

Assuming that machine is not standing in a dusty environment and that the ID sensors are clean, it could be that the A3 counter is set to A4?
Perhaps they use thick paper without indicating it so creating al kind of problems? Perhaps the black bias roller on the ITB belt is not ok?

[copier tech]

Re: IMC2000 light blacks

Well, it was a strange one.

First thing I did was check the K PCU - was 2,5K away of reaching EOL, but not bad looking. The PCDU back plate was also present, and the toner was OEM.

Then I updated the firmware, clean the ID sensors, run all process control SPs and calibrate colors.

When I printed the counter, it had a glorious pitch-black triangle. I was happy.

Then, as the PCU was almost reaching 60k, I replaced it, taking care to input the SP data on the cheat sheet and resetting the counter, turning off the machine and then turning it on after replacement.

And the printouts were gray again! Come on!!!

After that, try as I might, I couldn't make them pitch black again, even after force feeding k toner. I tried all the hints about changing SP3201 and reinitializing the TD sensors, but no dice. In the end the only thing that made things marginally better was increasing SP-3620-01, but even that didn't make the prints as good as the first time.

In the end I had to leave it as it was (it was better than when I began after all) but I suspect image transfer.

I need to dig around, but if someone can think of something, I'm open to suggestions.

Cheers!

You may have a failing K hopper this may explain why after replacing the K PCDU quality was initially OK.

[slimslob]

Re: IMC2000 light blacks

Well, it was a strange one.

First thing I did was check the K PCU - was 2,5K away of reaching EOL, but not bad looking. The PCDU back plate was also present, and the toner was OEM.

Then I updated the firmware, clean the ID sensors, run all process control SPs and calibrate colors.

When I printed the counter, it had a glorious pitch-black triangle. I was happy.

Then, as the PCU was almost reaching 60k, I replaced it, taking care to input the SP data on the cheat sheet and resetting the counter, turning off the machine and then turning it on after replacement.

And the printouts were gray again! Come on!!!

After that, try as I might, I couldn't make them pitch black again, even after force feeding k toner. I tried all the hints about changing SP3201 and reinitializing the TD sensors, but no dice. In the end the only thing that made things marginally better was increasing SP-3620-01, but even that didn't make the prints as good as the first time.

In the end I had to leave it as it was (it was better than when I began after all) but I suspect image transfer.

I need to dig around, but if someone can think of something, I'm open to suggestions.

Cheers!

Therein might be an indication of where the problem is "Then, as the PCU was almost reaching 60k, I replaced it, taking care to input the SP data on the cheat sheet and resetting the counter, turning off the machine and then turning it on after replacement." Do you know what a machine immediately after power on, it runs the white reference scan. If the optics, mirrors etc., are not clean it will shift the entire gray scale to the light side. If the counter print is good but copying it is light, you have filmed mirrors.

[mrwho]

Re: IMC2000 light blacks

LOL - it's strange that you got it to print a pitch black triangle - it should be somewhat black-ish but not too dark because this series will never keep this density over time and you will end up in discussions with the customer. The current state (better than before but not perfect) sounds like a more realistic state what this engline is able to maintain.....for some time^^

Yeah, I need to check another similar machine when I get the chance in order to get an idea...

Assuming that machine is not standing in a dusty environment and that the ID sensors are clean, it could be that the A3 counter is set to A4? Perhaps they use thick paper without indicating it so creating al kind of problems? Perhaps the black bias roller on the ITB belt is not ok?

Office environment. ID sensors cleaned, and the cloth didn't come out dirty, so I assume they were not too dirty before (perhaps fogged, but not dirty). The ITB is a possibility...

You may have a failing K hopper this may explain why after replacing the K PCDU quality was initially OK.

Nope, just replaced the PCU. The dev unit is still well within life.

Therein might be an indication of where the problem is "Then, as the PCU was almost reaching 60k, I replaced it, taking care to input the SP data on the cheat sheet and resetting the counter, turning off the machine and then turning it on after replacement." Do you know what a machine immediately after power on, it runs the white reference scan. If the optics, mirrors etc., are not clean it will shift the entire gray scale to the light side. If the counter print is good but copying it is light, you have filmed mirrors.

My bad, failed to mention I also cleaned the optics in that first intervention. And all tests were made with printouts from the computer.

Thank you all for your inputs. If anything new comes up, I'll let you know.