Bad Paper?

[Kidaver]

Re: Bad Paper?

We've had this issue with 601/751 at schools with their cheap paper and the lovely east texas humidity...they never call for it jamming as you know how teachers have that "It's not my problem" mentality....they call when so much paper has crammed into the cleaning unit that it goes up around the drum and under the charge wire and they start getting black pages...such a mess...

[fixthecopier]

Re: Bad Paper?

Went back today. Paper I left there Friday was now running just as poorly as theirs was. At least now I had consistency. I started from scratch, pulled the drum carriage, cleaned and checked everything from the ground up, set all my settings to match the one at the other end of the hall loaded it with fresh paper and it ran about 300 with no jam. And the paper is coming out curled on the corners, like it should when it is full of moisture. Thanks to all who responded.

[kingpd@businessprints.net]

Re: Bad Paper?

They must not have good heat/ac in the building...but I have a cheap quick solution...

All you need is a vacuum and about $11.

Assuming the paper is arriving in decent condition, they could put closed reams in something like a space saver bag and vacuum them down. You've probably seen them on infomercials where they put pillows, blankets, clothes, etc., in them.

Here's an example of one:



Then they could just put in enough paper in the machine for about a days worth. Or they could buy something to regulate the building which they should be doing anyway.

[nmfaxman]

Re: Bad Paper?

Isn't there a de-humidify kit for the paper drawers?

These are usually flat high resistant resisters that sit under the paper drawers to help dehydrate paper.

[fixthecopier]

Re: Bad Paper?

Isn't there a de-humidify kit for the paper drawers?

These are usually flat high resistant resisters that sit under the paper drawers to help dehydrate paper.

I think the worst part of it was location. As mentioned in my first post, this machine is sitting in a wide hallway about 30 to 40 feet from double doors. The students will be in and out of those doors all day and it has rained every day for the past week. Machine has only been there about a year.

To give you some idea as to how bad it can be, one year at one machine it was very obvious. The paper coming out was curling completely around so that lead and trail edge were touching. They put a dehumidifier in the copy room. The holding tank, a little over a gallon would fill up about 3 times a day in a small copy room with the door closed.

[fixthecopier]

Re: Bad Paper?

Have you opened the front door and watched the paper to see what it is doing? Have you removed the drum claw assembly to check for toner in the solenoid, it will slow down the drum claws and allow paper to follow the drum into the cleaning section. Maybe one of the drum claws is out of position.
Hope this helps.
Darren

I did check those things, thanks. As far as watching with the door open, well I can't see things as quick as they happen. However, sitting here, I just realized I could have filmed it with my phone and watched it. Oh well, hindsight and all that.

[kingpd@businessprints.net]

Re: Bad Paper?

Sounds like they're too cheap to install central AC and heating like the university I attended many years ago.

You may want to encourage them to find a room that is climate controlled in additional to the little dehumidifier that they're running otherwise the problems are going to persist.

Funny thing is you don't want paper to be too dry either. That's why big commercial printers have misting systems to spray big rolls of paper so that they can keep the ideal humidity range. I forget all the reasons but a little moisture is needed for proper ink setting and to provide a little friction for machine feeding.

Hope you work it out.

I think the worst part of it was location. As mentioned in my first post, this machine is sitting in a wide hallway about 30 to 40 feet from double doors. The students will be in and out of those doors all day and it has rained every day for the past week. Machine has only been there about a year.

To give you some idea as to how bad it can be, one year at one machine it was very obvious. The paper coming out was curling completely around so that lead and trail edge were touching. They put a dehumidifier in the copy room. The holding tank, a little over a gallon would fill up about 3 times a day in a small copy room with the door closed.

[kingarthur]

Re: Bad Paper?

We have a customer that used to have damp paper problems, one day I went to look at their copier, opened the paper trays & in each one, on the left hand side, they had lots of little silica gel sachets, they haven't had a problem since....they are kept well away from the paper.

I remember a few years ago, there was a problem with a brand of paper called "Relay", some of it was made in England & some of it in Finland....the difference was that the paper made in Finland was apparently made from pine & the grain went diagonally across the page instead of across...this paper caused loads of feeding problems....

[kingpd@businessprints.net]

Re: Bad Paper?

That's a good idea. Had someone with a mail folder inserter machine that had static problems with the printouts because they came right off the printer and onto the paper feed section of the mail machine. One day I went in and they somehow attached a bounce dryer sheet so that it would rub on the top of the pages as they got fed in.

I guess it worked to a point. My solution was to let the printouts cool a little bit and get an air model paper jogger to destaticize the pages.

We have a customer that used to have damp paper problems, one day I went to look at their copier, opened the paper trays & in each one, on the left hand side, they had lots of little silica gel sachets, they haven't had a problem since....they are kept well away from the paper.

I remember a few years ago, there was a problem with a brand of paper called "Relay", some of it was made in England & some of it in Finland....the difference was that the paper made in Finland was apparently made from pine & the grain went diagonally across the page instead of across...this paper caused loads of feeding problems....

[Darren King]

Re: Bad Paper?

I replaced the fuser cover on a KonMin C250 and didn't order the antistatic brush. The paper would exit the fuser and float up and stick to the bottom of the scanner bed. It was the funniest thing to watch. Ordered the brush and all was well. It is amazing how much static builds up on the paper as it travels throught the machine.

[blackcat4866]

Re: Bad Paper?

We have a customer that used to have damp paper problems, one day I went to look at their copier, opened the paper trays & in each one, on the left hand side, they had lots of little silica gel sachets, they haven't had a problem since....they are kept well away from the paper.

I remember a few years ago, there was a problem with a brand of paper called "Relay", some of it was made in England & some of it in Finland....the difference was that the paper made in Finland was apparently made from pine & the grain went diagonally across the page instead of across...this paper caused loads of feeding problems....

I had a customer who took this concept a little too far. This customer poured loose rice in the paper trays. As you can imagine, there were a few drawbacks. It took three separate visits to vacuum up all the rice. It kept re-appearing in the developing unit and the drum cleaning unit. It also creates cool texture in the resulting copies while passing through the fuser. =^..^=

[mojorolla]

Re: Bad Paper?

In a little over ten years in the biz, I have blamed paper twice. In both instances, water droplets formed at the fuser exit from the "flash steaming" of the water in the paper.
I always do and look for the following when it comes to paper:
-I always fan the paper stack to break up static. In the drawer, from a fresh ream, etc. If it's out, fan it.
-Flip the stack in the drawer. If I open a drawer and the edges are curled upward, flip the stack so the curl faces down.
-I tell customers not to store paper on the floor, even in boxes. Shelf, pallet, anything to get it off the floor.
-Check the paper used to wrap the ream. Quality paper will have a wax coating on the inside of the wrapper. Cheap paper is basically wrapped in a larger piece of paper.
-Check the ends for glue. When reams are sealed, the glue will occasionally adhere to the edge of the paper stack.
-Tupperware; ya that's right. We store our good, demo paper on the delivery trucks in large plastic containers and it works well. These are also great for those customers who have 30 opened reams of paper in varying weights and colors, strewn all over the floor of a basement office. You know the ones...usually a church or a mom and pop "print shop".
-Change Orientation to short-edge/landscape. A small lead edge feeds better with junk paper.

Paper dust, dirt, toner, ozone, developer, AND water from the paper; it must be summer. Awesome.

[nmfaxman]

Re: Bad Paper?

I am going to try taping medium desiccant packs to the back left corner of the drawer with a DFW sign on it.

"DFW" Don't F with.

[Iowatech]

Re: Bad Paper?

If you've already found a solution for this, please ignore what follows. Also, another good reason to disregard this is that the last Konica based equipment I worked on was analog.
That being said, it might be time to look for nicks or burrs on the paper guides around where the paper gets jammed, especially if the leading edge of the paper hits there during the normal operation of the machine. If you find any you might be able to scrape them off with the edge of a steel ruler and apply a good dose of Brillinize in that area or something. Also, if there is a solenoid powered gate in the area that the paper is getting jammed at, you might want to look for damage there.
Well, good luck, and sorry if this was a waste of time.

[CompyTech]

Re: Bad Paper?

I too live in a state with high humidity, even in winter. I'm not afraid to blame paper as I've done on several occasions. I had one where the paper was jamming on a C280 in the fuser right before the exit. You could feel the dampness in the air, I told the guy it was the paper he said "BS" I said "come here look at this" I showed him the condensation on the fuser and the steam coming off. "Look your paper.. See the waves in it? It's too damp" Ran a fresh pack from another office just fine.