canon C1 DEV units

[Penvy]

What started out to be a lot of problems we found some workarounds.
The big thing here is the DEv units.

The info and specs show that 500K is what you should get from a "new" dev unit
The units come shipped with all the "prongs"(4) for Y C M K
when you install them you break off the pronf to fit in the color slot on the main drum, then go thru the svc install for that color of all 4.
that is the stir and first time toner being added to the dev unit.

Then you run thru the gradation and so on.
This C1 has only 75K and tons of other problems but the first one is the color voiding,clumping, and dev mag roll void/streak caused by the toner.

all of the toner is OEM and stored with the C1 in a clean office .

The problem we have with this C1 is the toner colors starting with the Y
and no changes on any setting in svc mode or dens.

now each color has now done the very same thing but not the K

The K when copied with text or a solid black paper on the glass comes out perfect.

The Y has even coverage on the dens but the C and M are banding and fade into a kind of beach sand ripple effect into white nothing on 8.5x11.
Thus giving error codes 0000020 xxa1 /xx86 and we know the image patch sensor is ok but the color image is not getting on the drum. And yes the wire /grid are ok

Its almost as if the dev units just need to be cleaned out and a refresh on the dev "ironoxide" powder and reinstall.

At this point the local canon dealer is no help with this C1 and their poor service performance on the C1. were left with a mach that has been down for 3 weeks now.

We can fix it with a little help from you guys. or we just give up on canon

[Penvy]

canon c1 000020 x1a2 error

Found the main problem with the dev units..............the dev "iron oxide" powder is very low on some of the color units.

Just not getting an even coating on the mag cylinder with the blade adj.
These units should go up to 500K and these only have 75K

every thing else ck's out......ITB, the cleaner roll assy's, drum good, image patch,ATR clean, etc.
reset the RAM and re entered the door spec's

the error is the same now and was getting a 0000020 xx1a.

it's the dev units

[Guest]

Check connector J206 on the P-kit assembly. This is the connector for the ATR sensor. Cut wire ties and straighten out the wires on the connector. The constant pulling and pushing of this connector has soften the wires around the connector hub causing a miscommunication between the ATR sensor and the DC controller. Replace the wire harness FM2-7221-000 P-kit cable 2.

There's a snap shot

[Penvy]

Will do,
we have had this unit apart many times.
the ATR error happens after the dens test .
It wont do it on the first few but after 3 or 4 is shows the 000020 x 1a and the Y or the M in the first # like x1 or x2 .
The dens % in the analog are high 18.00% 24.00%.
and if I can do a full gradation on run the M goes down to 6.00%
But the error stops that and start all over.

[Penvy]

KO did a point to point ck on the ATR cable and all the way to the atr. wiggle test and all also on the image patch cable the 18 wirl conn below the drum to the rh side of the conn where there are multi conn. ok also.

what I did see was the dev color mag drum were very light on some of then , spin the gear for each one and the mag drum "brush" came back up.

almost as if the dev color anr not getting spun to refresh the toner on each of then.
I did not see any broken/stripped gear on the main toner drom assy of where it would engage to the body when pushed back in.

BUY the devs really need a starter on each color and there is none from Canon.
except the irc6800 starter kits but the "V-toner" on the c1 in in question.
Please keep in mind the dev units ONLY have 75K

but the K works just fine. It just looks as if the dispersent /starter "iron oxide" is depleated enough on these colors.

Just need a source for the starter . best guess

[jonhs237]

It sounds to me like you are low on starter which will never allow your machine to work properly. It does'nt sound like you are initializing the starters either under install. If you have such high percent readings this is a direct indication that the machine thinks the toner to starter percentage is off usually if it is over 5% you will start error coding. If you reinit the starters now you will be telling the copier that the toner concentration should be kept at this level and it will stop error coding. The problem with this is that the copy quality will never get better as you are telling the dc controller to keep it this way. What you need to do is get more starter clean out all of the old starter reload them and then initialize them under FUNCTION>INSTALL>INISET-Y/M/C/K individually or do all four at once using INISET-4. Stir does nothing but stir the starter which it will do automatically using INISET. Of course don't do any of this if you still have a bad connection to the ATR sensor or patch sensors do to bad wiring. If your sub error codes are pointing to different developers the wiring is most likely OK since if there is no connection to the sensors at all they usually error code out to the same developer every time.

[Penvy]

That's what is happening,
The old starter is almost gone in each of the dev units.
this mach has less that 75K from new.
the dev units are rated at 500K.

canon does not have a "starter" for this C1 at all
only replacement dev units or new ones.

Wonder why canon is so much trouble$$$.
Nobody there factors in the REAL cost of replacement.

Simple fix for a good mach when it works.

[Oze]

That's what is happening,
The old starter is almost gone in each of the dev units.
this mach has less that 75K from new.
the dev units are rated at 500K.

canon does not have a "starter" for this C1 at all
only replacement dev units or new ones.

Wonder why canon is so much trouble$$$.
Nobody there factors in the REAL cost of replacement.

Simple fix for a good mach when it works.

Because the dev units have fallen over before their life you need to contact your Canon dealer and have the units replaced under warranty.
They'll need a Pprint,Dprint and current CQ examples.
From what you've told me previously your local dealer has really dropped the ball with this and they now need to at least step up and get the warranty sorted for you.

[fitsy.13]

same problems

i have had the same problems with the c1 of banding there was a tech note from canon about some of the first c1 imagepress machines sent out having the erase lamp wiring loom being the wrong way round i have changed this and re-dev all the dev units and it seems to have sorted oput this problem for now

[Penvy]

Thanks for the reply,
The issue here is that it DID work without the banding or streaking.

The 500K life of these units is pure BS!!!!!!!!!!!!

the toner waste container not even 1/4 full had way to much of the Iron oxide powder (the stuff that makes the brush stand up on the mag roll)
in the waste

Therefore the dev unit on factory settings from the start were NEVER
going to make the 500K .....................not even 100K
there just too small and there is no refresh offered for each color.

What simply happens is the dev unit is great for 75k maybe.
Then just runs out of the iron oxide powder to disperse the toner
and you have all these errors ......patch image or dens and nothing will help out until the dev units are replaced.

Then the ITB and fuser roll with the web cleaner.
This is not an copier for
anything close to production use at all.

CANON knows this and lets CBS sell these to anyone and screw what happens to them!!!!!!!!! Lets not forget the correct Fiery1 server they dont
put on the copier........not the one that is mounted on the back!!!


There is a division in CANON called CYA! The need that for all the problems CBS causes!

You can figure the rest out

[11x17]

Penvy

I don't know if you are a certified canon tech or not but if you were and you checked your tech pubs and or knowledgebase you would realize you could order just the starter for the dev units. I would give you the part numbers but am wary of an uncertified tech doing this.

Good luck

[Penvy]

As of 2 mo ago they were not, but the main point is that they even need it so soon.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, the fiery server was NOT the right one.
and so on and on.
BTW the part #'s should be no secret for this.

But the 6800 starters should work.

But thanks for responding!

[worthy]

c1 devs

Phew thank god for that ! I thought it was just me havin all these dev probs ! Dont seem to be gettin much help from canon support r.e this prob with devs . Its good to have you guys to exchange info with .

p.s we have no probs gettin hold of dev or starter . but find its better to replace dev assy as it is already loaded with dev. Like you guys gettin no life out of the units .

Also found that if the ATR sensor is dirty then you clean it as part of a pm the this sometimes causes E 020 probs , find i have to re init the unit the all goes ok anyone any ideas ? i remember when repairing old CLC1000
You had to do a win clear after cleanin the ATRs pity doesn't seem to be anything similar on the C1.

[Guest]

I just recently replaced starter on one of my C1's At 82K. They are rated for 500k, we all know that! I forgot what the copy ratio was base on for the life of the developer, but its usually 6%. Customers who print Graphics, or print shops are never going to just use 6% of color on a sheet of paper. I thought the this machine was built for print shops and plus its to slow,14 pages a minute for color. The customer however and to pay for the developer and of course they didn't understand why. They ask me how many times must i have to replace this stuff. I told every 75 to 80K or depending on what they print. I know that im lying but if i tell them the truth, that the starter last 500k and it doesn't, I will still be looked at as a liar anyway.

[worthy]

C1 devs

I just recently replaced starter on one of my C1's At 82K. They are rated for 500k, we all know that! I forgot what the copy ratio was base on for the life of the developer, but its usually 6%. Customers who print Graphics, or print shops are never going to just use 6% of color on a sheet of paper. I thought the this machine was built for print shops and plus its to slow,14 pages a minute for color. The customer however and to pay for the developer and of course they didn't understand why. They ask me how many times must i have to replace this stuff. I told every 75 to 80K or depending on what they print. I know that im lying but if i tell them the truth, that the starter last 500k and it doesn't, I will still be looked at as a liar anyway.

Hi thanks for the help its good to know i'm not on my own with these issues
because there still a relatively new machine technical info is still not great.
just wanted to ask when replacing dev assembley or re deving the unit
what is the correct proceedure ? INISET or just plane old INIT ?


Again thanks for your help .