Canon C1 drum question

[Penvy]

Its been a while, but having a image problem with the banding and rough 2" band.
On the drums itself the side closest to the operator(knob)
I cant remember,
Is there supposed to be a 1/4" metal ring exposed near the edge ?

You can see the area where the cleaner pads left & right wear on the drum
Drum has 70K.

What I have read here is that the drum is not discharging, causing the rough band across the
image.
this problem got worse very fast and the DEV units were restarted about 10K ago and work great.
the drum surface looks fine and the image just prints with the banding issue.

This has to be a discharge/charge problem
No errors!
thanks
P

[teckat]

Its been a while, but having a image problem with the banding and rough 2" band.
On the drums itself the side closest to the operator(knob)
I cant remember,
Is there supposed to be a 1/4" metal ring exposed near the edge ?

You can see the area where the cleaner pads left & right wear on the drum
Drum has 70K.

What I have read here is that the drum is not discharging, causing the rough band across the
image.
this problem got worse very fast and the DEV units were restarted about 10K ago and work great.
the drum surface looks fine and the image just prints with the banding issue.

This has to be a discharge/charge problem
No errors!
thanks
P

so banding on that side runs in paper feed direction/ lead to trail edge,only in one area ?
is it from all colors ?

if u turn of Potential Control , will banding go away/ if so replace Drum

[Penvy]

Banding runs across the page side to side, 2" wide rough area.
drum will produce color image. some times a good image
Banding can be multiable bands on just a few.
Its like it has a grounding problem.
this copier only has 70K.
and drum was replaced now has 60K

[seeb]

If it's an intermittent crossfeed band and you can feel developer in the band it is usually the drum causing this. I have seen this twice now and in both instances the drum fixed it.

[Penvy]

I posted pics a while back
It first started out with just a color band
but the Black was perfect.
and sometimes the color image was fine.
the drum question is the metal 1/4" exposed on the knob side.
I cant remember if that was normal
Customer is down on his luck and has to pay for everything.
Just replacing expensive parts to find out is not an option.

The drum surface is fine and the image ok but this just got worse
overnight on the banding.
and so far
NO Errors!

As I posted before the DEV units have been restarted and worked great for about 6K
thanks for the response guys
just trying to help out a friend in need!
P

[czing1]

tech pub

See if this bulletin pertains to your problem
Canon just released last week

[teckat]

I posted pics a while back
It first started out with just a color band
but the Black was perfect.
and sometimes the color image was fine.
the drum question is the metal 1/4" exposed on the knob side.
I cant remember if that was normal
Customer is down on his luck and has to pay for everything.
Just replacing expensive parts to find out is not an option.

The drum surface is fine and the image ok but this just got worse
overnight on the banding.
and so far
NO Errors!

As I posted before the DEV units have been restarted and worked great for about 6K
thanks for the response guys
just trying to help out a friend in need!
P

did u try to turn of potential control, like i posted ?? Try turning Potential Control off (COPIER>OPTION>BODY>PO-CNT to 0) Turning Potential Control off is for testing purposes only. If left off color accuracy will suffer and E061 will occur.

these drums somehow become defective after a while.
these banding issues have been an ongoing issue for a while/ read that posted pub/ rough toner surface
is this your issue below/ you posted that issue was on op side/ now u say it is across drum ????
2484_00111..jpg

that pic is for lead edge to trail edge/ across drum or cross feed is something else !!!! like front to back !!

[Penvy]

My Bad,
I read my post about the banding
Notice the Black & white on the left is ok
The problem started like this and the band was moving all over the inage.
then the image would print great and happen again.
did a P5 with all of the colors and got solids a few times then this banding came back.

then it was yellow only and now the black .

then sometimes you would get a good copy!
the drum would not "get better"
theres an HV or transfer of the DEV to drum issue.

Guys this C1 from the start has been a real nightmare.
No wonder Canon gave up,
but I cant if theres a chance I can track this down.

For a start the DEV units have been restarted and clean.
the drum and brush clean assy are good along with the cleaning blades.

The itb belt assy has 70K and was cleaned and will be replaced as soon as we
fix this problem.

Right now I could spend over 3K in parts for a C1 that has less that 70K
Drum,Dev units,ITB, and all of the cleaning brush assy.
Hard to think that this is that bad,
but the copier is VERY clean inside and out

We do know of the DEV units failing too soon
and the high Maint.
but this is nutz.

Thanks for helping out guys this is why I am here.
Its a shame this has so many problems.
when this thing works its really wonderful.
P

C1 banding B&W an&#100.jpg

[teckat]

you have a band in the non-image area ,you have posted that before, paper feed location. POST SOME OF THE NEW PROBLEMS !!!!!!!
THAT IS NOT A CROSS FEED BAND / if short side is the paper feed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

are these prints or copies ?

Tech Info:
[B]As the Drum rotates against the Front Seal Plate [A] and the Rear Seal Plate abrasions begin to develop
and will eventually wear through the Drum outer surface[C]. Once this occurs the Drum could possibly
begin to leak its Potential Voltage through the worn areas; which leads to Drum failure.
untitled..JPG
dd..JPG
Since the abrasions on the Drum are created by the pressure of the Front Seal Plate and the Rear Seal Plate,
the material of the seals has been changed to reduce the amount of pressure at the point of contact. By
minimizing the wear at the edges, the Drum Life should be extended.
Install the new style Front Seal Plate and Rear Seal Plate at the time of Drum replacement.

SEAL, PLATE, FRONT=FL2-2707-010
SEAL, PLATE, REAR=FL2-2708-010
D KIT ASSEMBLY:=FM2-2491-020
iPR C1

[Penvy]

You just confirmed what our CBS dealer would NOT!

They just kept saying "its too soon for the drum to fail"
The Wear points are just that,
They didnt even replace the seal plates when they replaced the drum.
I looked up the service ticket.
There were no new seal plates or any kit assy that should of been replaced.

The "metal ring" was the question I thought you would pick right up on.
I was going to post the pic of the ring but you posted it first.

Teckat,
Your a first rate Tech!
thanks for the confirmation
Our local CBS dealer has caused so many problems for Canon.
thanks
P

BTW,
an old trick but good one is to use thin teflon tape wrapped c/ clockwise on the wear points to extend drum life.

[teckat]

thanks, the C1/C1+ models need a good maintenance schedule, set up the tech.

[Penvy]

Hey
GUESS WHAT,
Remember that "OLD TRICK"
Teflon tape?
ON the wear ring?

Worked Like a Charm.
Even the Dens got down to below 2%

The ITB belt needs replaced but the color solids on P5 11X17 are great.

The yellow still does the banding.
thats got to be cuz I think its the first color and the full HV charge is there and sometimes it gets a full zap before leveling to a constant level

WELL SHIT

This is another weak point that says the DEV units CAN be restarted many times and not FAIL
ITS a PAIN in the ass to do it but every 60K thats what it is!.

Thanks Guyz
P

[teckat]

Hey
GUESS WHAT,
Remember that "OLD TRICK"
Teflon tape?
ON the wear ring?

Worked Like a Charm.
Even the Dens got down to below 2%

The ITB belt needs replaced but the color solids on P5 11X17 are great.

The yellow still does the banding.
thats got to be cuz I think its the first color and the full HV charge is there and sometimes it gets a full zap before leveling to a constant level

WELL SHIT

This is another weak point that says the DEV units CAN be restarted many times and not FAIL
ITS a PAIN in the ass to do it but every 60K thats what it is!.

Thanks Guyz
P

good fix / but once there is a voltage leak from drum it will always be there

[Penvy]

good fix / but once there is a voltage leak from drum it will always be there
(that's what my doctor told me) hahaha


This is the fun part,

The teflon tape is a dielectric and can isolate the "leak"
This goes back to "painting the HV leads to a old style color tv tube
OK I know its pushing it a little but if your old school its a way to show what i am talking about.

What is a big change is that all the other problems cleaned up quick.
after doing over 100 p5 11x17 cymk the ITB belt showed its a problem too.
But after 70K mostly full color Thats expected.

I guess what bugs me is that Canon KNOWS this from other color machines.
They could have gone with a better drum seal assy.

the left and right pads were wayyyy too tight and after getting full of the
Iron oxide residue (dispersant) and like sandpaper just wear it down to early failure.
BUT Canon says its too early for drum replacement.

Just makes you nutz to think they would let this out without field testing and
use the info from other E-drums like the 7000 series.

I just keep going on about how Canon should have fixed these things befor releasing this
and save itself the bad rap they have on this C1 machine.

My friend is relived to find out this will work until the drum gets to 150K like it should.

The ITB belt is another mess.

As far as the leak still there
I have run a bunch of color work already and no problem
P

[teckat]

it's all about the bottom line with Canon/ get the product out>then worry later> Remember when the CLC 1100 series came out> over twenty tech pubs first month/ i'll bet there are still lawsuits pending on it/ what a nightmare, i had 8 power supplies blow out the first 3weeks/ customers had to wait 2mos. for parts.

i am buying stock on that tape (: