Just bought C364e, could use some advance advice

[copier tech]

Re: Just bought C364e, could use some advance advice

Greetings all!
I'm an end user (which will be painfully obvious very shortly), and I'm hoping I can get some advance assistance before I screw something up and become (even more of) a nuisance here.
I've worked in the tech sector for the past 20+ yrs. I'm factory trained on Oce' large format engineering printer/copiers, and have extensive experience in general computer building and troubleshooting.
However, I have very little experience with copier work. We do have a Bizhub c308 at my other office, and it's been absolutely fabulous, which is one of the reasons why I bought this new(er) machine. I've worked on the c308 a little, just some basic stuff like simple consumables replacement, cleaning, and print quality troubleshooting to assist a tech before he came out. I also am the network admin, so I'm sorta familiar with the KMBT web interface, at least the basics of it.

Anyway, I just bought a Bizhub C364e from a state surplus auction for my home office. I've not picked it up yet, but I'm trying to get an idea of things to be preparing for in order to put this machine back in service.
According to the seller, the hard drive has been removed, and the "computer has been wiped", whatever that means. He assured me the machine was in basically functional condition, even without the HDD.
What would you folks suggest as my first steps?
Should I be planning to replace the HDD right away, or is that more involved that I've been lead to believe? I've done fairly extensive searching and reading here on the site, and it seems that a physical, followed by a logical format would be required, and that I may need an animation file? I also see frequent reference to service mode. I'm familiar with such from my Oce' days, but not how to gain access in this KM machine.
I do have the service manual for this machine, but since it's nearly 1500 pages, and I'm not sure what I'm looking for yet, I haven't really dug into it much. Does it explain accessing service mode and how to perform the HDD format, and those other required steps, or will I likely still need some hand-holding from you kind folks?
What other things would you consider to be SOP when testing and refurbing a machine to be put back into service, that I'm probably overlooking?
Have I put myself in a bad situation, or am I likely to have a working copier without a ton of hassle and expense?

Any advice from the masters greatly appreciated!
-E

You have a C308 in your office so bought a 'newer' C364e ?

The C308 is the later model the 4e series is about 5/6 years old.

You can fit any SATA HDD it has to be 320GB or larger delete any partitions first using a USB HDD caddy etc if you use a 2nd hand one.

When you fit to the copier it will prompt you to format it.

Thats when you will get prompted to install the movie animation firmware, we can supply this for you & the latest base firmware should you want to update the machine (this gives the Airprint option & SMB v3/3 security)

Firmware Update - Printer & Copier Firmware

[Elmojo]

Re: Just bought C364e, could use some advance advice

You have a C308 in your office so bought a 'newer' C364e ?

The C308 is the later model the 4e series is about 5/6 years old.

You can fit any SATA HDD it has to be 320GB or larger delete any partitions first using a USB HDD caddy etc if you use a 2nd hand one.

When you fit to the copier it will prompt you to format it.

Thats when you will get prompted to install the movie animation firmware, we can supply this for you & the latest base firmware should you want to update the machine (this gives the Airprint option & SMB v3/3 security)

Firmware Update - Printer & Copier Firmware

Really? Oh man, my research let me down. I was having a hard time finding any sort of release dates on models, but we've had our c308 for about 4 years, and it was several years old when we bought it, so I assumed it was older than the c364e. Plus, just looking at the brochure for both, the 364 appeared to have more 'updated' features, like apps an such. Plus, it's faster, so I figured it was the newer model. That's what I get for assuming I guess. lol

So, for the HDD, why does it need to be 320GB or larger? The spec sheet says it had a 250GB drive in it originally. Is that incorrect info?
I'd love to have the animation file(s) and firmware on-hand, so that when I get the machine, I can go ahead and do that part of the process fairly soon, after running basic function checks and doing some cleaning of course.

[copier tech]

Re: Just bought C364e, could use some advance advice

Really? Oh man, my research let me down. I was having a hard time finding any sort of release dates on models, but we've had our c308 for about 4 years, and it was several years old when we bought it, so I assumed it was older than the c364e. Plus, just looking at the brochure for both, the 364 appeared to have more 'updated' features, like apps an such. Plus, it's faster, so I figured it was the newer model. That's what I get for assuming I guess. lol

So, for the HDD, why does it need to be 320GB or larger? The spec sheet says it had a 250GB drive in it originally. Is that incorrect info?
I'd love to have the animation file(s) and firmware on-hand, so that when I get the machine, I can go ahead and do that part of the process fairly soon, after running basic function checks and doing some cleaning of course.

The speed is worked out by the model so the C308 is 30 copies per minute your C364e is 36 per min.

The manual says 250GB but they all came with a 320gb hdd.

4 series, 8 series, 9 series latest is i series.

[blackcat4866]

Re: Just bought C364e, could use some advance advice

I'm a little late to the conversation, but all the information you got is correct:

320GB SATA drive.
Logical then Physical format
You'll be prompted to enter the encryption passphrase. IIRC it will be 20 characters, keep typing until it won't take any more characters (doesn't matter which, only that you can type the sequence identically twice). It is entered in the Utilities > Administrator Settings > etc, etc. (you have the manual).
Then you can reload the firmware and movie data.

That's the minimum. When you get to a running condition you can try printing these pages:
From there we can help you diagnose quality issues.
The C364e is a popular model and runs well, just on the verge of obsolescence.
=^..^=

[Elmojo]

Re: Just bought C364e, could use some advance advice

Huh, look at that, I'm learnin'!
Thanks so much for the tips so far guys, very helpful stuff.
So if I'm understanding correctly, the encryption code is one I create, once the format is complete?
Just double checking, isn't the physical format first, then the logical? I'm just basing this on my PC experience, not doubting you...

[tsbservice]

Re: Just bought C364e, could use some advance advice

Follow precisely what BC said you never will be disappointed. There are million of reasons to do that and only one he's is TOP-TOP tech of whole good old Earth.

[blackcat4866]

Re: Just bought C364e, could use some advance advice

If you do the physical format first it will take many hours, then the Logical about 5 minutes.
If you do the logical format first it will take 5 minutes, then the physical about 30 minutes. The manual specifies the correct order.
=^..^=

[Elmojo]

Re: Just bought C364e, could use some advance advice

If you do the physical format first it will take many hours, then the Logical about 5 minutes.
If you do the logical format first it will take 5 minutes, then the physical about 30 minutes. The manual specifies the correct order.
=^..^=

I see, said the blind man.
That's interesting for sure. I would have thought that the logical format is the phase that creates all the required partitions. These beasts must operate very differently than typical computers.
Glad to know that before I screwed it up.
See? This is exactly the type of knowledge I hoped to gain before touching the machine, in order to avoid costly mistakes.

EDIT: So, a couple other items spring to mind...
1) non-OEM toner is a no-no....how about aftermarket drums and other similar parts and consumables? That a bad idea also, or is some of that passable? I don't know yet what may or may not need replacement, but I'm on a fairly limited budget, since I'm self-employed and work from home. I need to save money wherever I can reasonable do so without hurting the machine.
2) If one or more color toner(s) is empty, will the machine continue to copy/print on black only?
3) Does toner have an expiration date? I see some OEM toner available on eBay for a good price. Should I be concerned its age? Is there a way to tell from photos? I see a code of some sort, can that be decoded for a date?

[copier tech]

Re: Just bought C364e, could use some advance advice

I see, said the blind man.
That's interesting for sure. I would have thought that the logical format is the phase that creates all the required partitions. These beasts must operate very differently than typical computers.
Glad to know that before I screwed it up.
See? This is exactly the type of knowledge I hoped to gain before touching the machine, in order to avoid costly mistakes.

A physical format is not required just a logical the machine will prompt you to do this once you fit the HDD & first power on.

[blackcat4866]

Re: Just bought C364e, could use some advance advice

... EDIT: So, a couple other items spring to mind...
1) non-OEM toner is a no-no....how about aftermarket drums and other similar parts and consumables? That a bad idea also, or is some of that passable? I don't know yet what may or may not need replacement, but I'm on a fairly limited budget, since I'm self-employed and work from home. I need to save money wherever I can reasonable do so without hurting the machine.
2) If one or more color toner(s) is empty, will the machine continue to copy/print on black only?
3) Does toner have an expiration date? I see some OEM toner available on eBay for a good price. Should I be concerned its age? Is there a way to tell from photos? I see a code of some sort, can that be decoded for a date?

1) I've never seen aftermarket drums or any other parts for that matter. Definitely not developer, even if it were available.
2) No. It will print nothing when any one cartridge goes empty.
3) Not that I know of. My only worry is that it was stored properly. This summer was particularly hot for several weeks (95+F), and I experienced some partial fusing of toner and developer stored in my car for a few days. We've seen similar occurrences when a toner cartridge was stored on top of a radiator. If the savings are significant, I'd take the chance and be sure to shake the cartridge thoroughly before installing. You can tell when you shake the cartridge of the contents is moving or not.

=^..^=

[Elmojo]

Re: Just bought C364e, could use some advance advice

1) I've never seen aftermarket drums or any other parts for that matter. Definitely not developer, even if it were available.
2) No. It will print nothing when any one cartridge goes empty.
3) Not that I know of. My only worry is that it was stored properly. This summer was particularly hot for several weeks (95+F), and I experienced some partial fusing of toner and developer stored in my car for a few days. We've seen similar occurrences when a toner cartridge was stored on top of a radiator. If the savings are significant, I'd take the chance and be sure to shake the cartridge thoroughly before installing. You can tell when you shake the cartridge of the contents is moving or not.

=^..^=

1. Do you mean you've never used aftermarket drums, or that you've literally never seen them? This is what I was considering, should they be necessary: https://smile.amazon.com/New-Cyan-Dr.../dp/B07WV63MR7
I get get the entire set for less than $300 if required. Seemed like a good deal, if they were actually usable, and not going to destroy my machine.
2. bummer
3. Cool, thanks. I found a full set of OEM toner for $200 on eBay. That's the best price I've seen by quite a margin. If you're aware of a good source for consumables in the US, I'd love to know about it.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Just bought C364e, could use some advance advice

1. Do you mean you've never used aftermarket drums, or that you've literally never seen them? This is what I was considering, should they be necessary: https://smile.amazon.com/New-Cyan-Dr.../dp/B07WV63MR7
I get get the entire set for less than $300 if required. Seemed like a good deal, if they were actually usable, and not going to destroy my machine.
2. bummer
3. Cool, thanks. I found a full set of OEM toner for $200 on eBay. That's the best price I've seen by quite a margin. If you're aware of a good source for consumables in the US, I'd love to know about it.

Just my opinion, but you're taking a big gamble buying compatible drums, DV, toner, ect. I know you're looking to save money, but you could be introducing several problems into the machine at a time when you're trying to get it back up to speed. Personally, I wouldn't take that gamble.

[allan]

[Elmojo]

Re: Just bought C364e, could use some advance advice

Very helpful Allan, thanks much!
You're absolutely right, the price difference between the black and color...everything, on this machine is just silly.
I truly hope I don't have to replace any developer units, those things are quite spendy! If I do have to replace one (or more), I will absolutely do the 'chip conversion trick', as you suggest.

I didn't see any sort of external boxes in the photos, but I can't figure out what else that odd line about 'wiping the computer' in the auction description would have meant. I guess I'll find out Monday afternoon.
We had a Fiery External RIP on one of our graphics plotters at one of my previous jobs, and man I hated that thing with a passion. It caused every job to take ages to process, and half the time it would crash at around 89% complete anyway. I never really saw the quality improvement either.
If it does indeed have a Fiery, that's a great idea to yank the drive for use in the c364e. Waste not, want not! lol

I'm expecting it to have been fairly well maintained, since I was told that this is part of a batch of machines coming off lease from a technical college. I spoke with the equipment manager for that facility, and he was fairly forthcoming with the info. He was the one who suggested that the HDD could be reinstalled using an COTS unit, which shows he at least has some bit of background on these machines.

[Elmojo]

Re: Just bought C364e, could use some advance advice

Update!
So I have the machine home, and it looks good. Very clean, no obvious signs of abuse or damage.

However, upon power up, I get an orange light on the front panel (and on tray 3) and the following error message: "An internal error has occurred. System will reboot and error will be cleared."
I have no options, other than [job list], which takes me to a normal looking empty job list for a few seconds, before the machine does as it said and reboots.
Upon restart, I get a 'replenish paper' message, followed shortly by the above error. Rinse and repeat.
Could this be because the output sorter attachment has been removed?
I plan to reinstall it, but needed the updated service manual first to make sure I did it correctly, and according to the rules I can't request it yet because I haven't been registered for 15 days. :/
Also, there's no HDD installed, which could be the issue as well I assume.

I was intending to just consider it a 'wipe and new install' like I would an unknown computer, and do a fresh firmware update, but I can't seem to locate the service port for the USB stick. Is it one of those under the spring loaded cover at the rear right where you plug in the LAN cable or Fax lines? If so, which one? IF not, where the heck is it? I see the one on the front near the touch panel, but not the rear one.

Anyway, bit of a rocky start, but I'm confidant with a little help from you folks, I can get this thing breathing!