20-21 PC-416 intermittent

[4Toon]

We have several relatively new MFPs, with print counts ranging from 40,000 to 200,000 over the past four months, experiencing intermittent 20-21 misfeed errors originating from the PC-416 paper feed unit (affecting both 0i and newer 1i models). The only consistent solution so far has been to orient the paper with the curl facing downward. The issue occurs sporadically, and the paper fails to exit the feed section. We’ve confirmed the lift plate is level and replaced the feed tires, one-way clutches, and torque limiter, yet the problem persists, with curl-down orientation being the only effective fix or mitigation.

Could the mylar in Tray 3 be the issue? When the paper curl faces upward, might the mylar be pushing the stack too high, causing the paper to collide with the feed roller? Has anyone else encountered this and found a solution? Should I try adjusting the mylar downward by 1–2 mm to test this theory?

[copyman]

We have several relatively new MFPs, with print counts ranging from 40,000 to 200,000 over the past four months, experiencing intermittent 20-21 misfeed errors originating from the PC-416 paper feed unit (affecting both 0i and newer 1i models). The only consistent solution so far has been to orient the paper with the curl facing downward. The issue occurs sporadically, and the paper fails to exit the feed section. We’ve confirmed the lift plate is level and replaced the feed tires, one-way clutches, and torque limiter, yet the problem persists, with curl-down orientation being the only effective fix or mitigation.

Could the mylar in Tray 3 be the issue? When the paper curl faces upward, might the mylar be pushing the stack too high, causing the paper to collide with the feed roller? Has anyone else encountered this and found a solution? Should I try adjusting the mylar downward by 1–2 mm to test this theory?

I remember a bulletin for the 8 series addressing a mylar. Will try and find it. Maybe it will help with the "i" series. Also if the stack of paper slams down when drawer is open the rear lift cable can jump off pulley causing paper skew and jamming. There is a small part called "damper" that makes the elevator tray drop slowly. Probably not your issue but something to keep in mind.

[and]

If you have old cluch try

AAV5R71400

Clutch ASSY

work for me.

Purpose of Change and Where Changed

In order to improve the performance of kick spring clutch, the following changes have been implemented. - The single item supply of "Gear", "Spring", "Guide" and "Washer" have been discontinued, "Clutch ASSY", which is an assembly of "Gear", "Spring" and "Guide", has been added. [Figure 1]

[4Toon]

This jam changed to a 30-03 jam. It seems related to a warped registration unit, dirty clutches, and, in one recent case, a severely bound-up registration unit in a C450i that wouldn’t move. These MFPs are less than two years old, with approximately 500,000 prints, depending on their location in the school.

Has anyone else encountered this issue? If so, is the only solution to order a new registration unit for the warped plastic? This problem is occurring at one school where all MFPs were ordered simultaneously, so I’m wondering if the registration units might be from a defective batch.

We replaced the clutch and adjusted the registration unit to match the spacing between the plastic and the transfer belt found in a functioning unit. Additionally, the worst-affected MFP had burrs forming on the plastic housing around the registration unit, and you could see paper nicking those burrs on the edges. We replaced the plastic guard, and for a few days, no issues have been reported.

[SAR]

KM put a bulletin out claiming the warped registration units are caused by a wiring harness binding in the reg unit. I have tried loosening up the harness like they recommend, with no luck.
I think they don't want to admit their reg units are defective, so they come up with this lame excuse. I put a post on here a few years ago about some warped registration units we got. I'll see if I can find it and post it and the bulletin about the wiring harness.

[SAR]

Here's the bulletin:
Harness Binding.pdf

[4Toon]

Here's the bulletin:
[ATTACH]n1613308[/ATTACH]

Yeah, I saw that bulletin too and looked at the reg unit and thought the same thing as you, that it was BS.

[and]

Client recall, don't work for me.

If you have old cluch try

AAV5R71400

Clutch ASSY

work for me.

Purpose of Change and Where Changed

In order to improve the performance of kick spring clutch, the following changes have been implemented. - The single item supply of "Gear", "Spring", "Guide" and "Washer" have been discontinued, "Clutch ASSY", which is an assembly of "Gear", "Spring" and "Guide", has been added. [Figure 1]

[4Toon]

Client recall, don't work for me.

Thanks for the update. So far, we have found that the registration unit was warped in the middle, not due to the wires, but the plastic itself was bending in the middle when we took it out. We reshaped it, and now it is working. If ours come back, we will be ordering a whole new registration. The worst one we also found burs starting on the plastic guard over the registration unit, so we replaced that.

[femaster]

Client recall, don't work for me.

Did you (or anyone for that matter) ever find a resolution to the issue with the J20-21 jams on the PC-416?

We have a recently installed PC-416 on a C451i that is doing this. Based on customer feedback and our own testing, it only happens on DUPLEX copies /prints, and never on single sided. Every time it jams there is a definite noise that is heard. The sound resembles a slipping belt, locked up motor buzz, or similar. The paper stops just beyond the transport rollers and sensor on the tray 3 feed unit (see attached image below). During one of the runs, I placed my fingers on each of the motors, and when it finally made the noise and jammed, the vibration was most prominent on the motor that drivers the transport rollers (M132).

The current page count on this is only about 54K, but the base has been jamming since just after install. The jams are all over the map. Most frequently it's between 15 to 35 pages, but sometimes it'll go 300+ before it jams. We've done a lot of troubleshooting and parts replacement at the customer's site with no resolution. We have temporarily swapped out the base with another at the customer's site and brought it back to our office for troubleshooting. It's currently attached to a 450i and the jamming issue has definitely followed the base.

I don't believe that the firmware that drives the PC-416 is stored on it's controller board, but even if it is, both the customer's machine and our testing machine (and therefore the PC-416) are at the latest available from KM in the US. At this point we've swapped literally everything with a known good PC-416 and the problem has not been resolved.

Replaced and/or swapped:

• Spring clutch on transport roller (It had the new style already, replaced with a new one of the new style)
• Entire feed assembly (2 different ones, one with new style spring clutch and one with old style, no difference with either)
• reseated all wire harness connections in the base
• both motors (feed [M131] and transport [M132])
• all 3 drive gears and both belts
• entire paper tray/drawer assembly
• tray lift motor
• PCCB
• Entire wiring harness in the base
• right side access door (a stab in the dark with this one!)

We've inspected the frame of the base as best we can and nothing looks bent, warped or otherwise out of alignment. We are stumped on this one. Anybody have this intermittent J20-21 jamming issue and resolved it by replacing / fixing something that we haven't already tried????

Location where paper stops every time it jams:
IMG_3445.jpg

[4Toon]

Yikes, Optical sensor was changed with the other feed assy i assume. Here's a shot in the dark, since it sounds like there's almost nothing you've not touched or changed. Replace both feed and sep rollers with a blacked ribbed A64J564201 pick-up tire.

[copyrooks]

I had an issue with a C451i and a pc 416 with a very similar situation. We ended up replacing the pc 416 feed section and the tray 1 and 2 feed section. No issues from the customer so far. I wish I could of been patient enough to see which one was the culprit. Quick tip the C450i and C451i are different feed sections entirely. The C451i tray 1 and 2 feed section is more like the C360i and C361i for some reason, I think i feel asleep on the training.

[femaster]

I had an issue with a C451i and a pc 416 with a very similar situation. We ended up replacing the pc 416 feed section and the tray 1 and 2 feed section. No issues from the customer so far. I wish I could of been patient enough to see which one was the culprit. Quick tip the C450i and C451i are different feed sections entirely. The C451i tray 1 and 2 feed section is more like the C360i and C361i for some reason, I think i feel asleep on the training.

Thank you for your experience on that. The problem is definitely with the PC-416, as the C451i with the replacement PC-416 is no longer jamming, but our 450i with their PC-416 is having the same J20-21 jams as the C451i was. I'm pretty sure the feed assembly in the main body isn't the issue, but I'll see if I can locate another one and try it anyway. Willing to try just about anything at this point as so far nothing has worked.

[femaster]

Yikes, Optical sensor was changed with the other feed assy i assume. Here's a shot in the dark, since it sounds like there's almost nothing you've not touched or changed. Replace both feed and sep rollers with a blacked ribbed A64J564201 pick-up tire.

This sounds very strange, but I'll scavenge up a couple and give it go. I've got nothing to loose at this point.

[Max]

Did you (or anyone for that matter) ever find a resolution to the issue with the J20-21 jams on the PC-416?

We have a recently installed PC-416 on a C451i that is doing this. Based on customer feedback and our own testing, it only happens on DUPLEX copies /prints, and never on single sided. Every time it jams there is a definite noise that is heard. The sound resembles a slipping belt, locked up motor buzz, or similar. The paper stops just beyond the transport rollers and sensor on the tray 3 feed unit (see attached image below). During one of the runs, I placed my fingers on each of the motors, and when it finally made the noise and jammed, the vibration was most prominent on the motor that drivers the transport rollers (M132).

The current page count on this is only about 54K, but the base has been jamming since just after install. The jams are all over the map. Most frequently it's between 15 to 35 pages, but sometimes it'll go 300+ before it jams. We've done a lot of troubleshooting and parts replacement at the customer's site with no resolution. We have temporarily swapped out the base with another at the customer's site and brought it back to our office for troubleshooting. It's currently attached to a 450i and the jamming issue has definitely followed the base.

I don't believe that the firmware that drives the PC-416 is stored on it's controller board, but even if it is, both the customer's machine and our testing machine (and therefore the PC-416) are at the latest available from KM in the US. At this point we've swapped literally everything with a known good PC-416 and the problem has not been resolved.

Replaced and/or swapped:

• Spring clutch on transport roller (It had the new style already, replaced with a new one of the new style)
• Entire feed assembly (2 different ones, one with new style spring clutch and one with old style, no difference with either)
• reseated all wire harness connections in the base
• both motors (feed [M131] and transport [M132])
• all 3 drive gears and both belts
• entire paper tray/drawer assembly
• tray lift motor
• PCCB
• Entire wiring harness in the base
• right side access door (a stab in the dark with this one!)

We've inspected the frame of the base as best we can and nothing looks bent, warped or otherwise out of alignment. We are stumped on this one. Anybody have this intermittent J20-21 jamming issue and resolved it by replacing / fixing something that we haven't already tried????

Location where paper stops every time it jams:
IMG_3445.jpg

When it makes a noise and jams up on t3 only its always been slippong belt for one of the motors. The one that drives vertical relay black rollers. The way I managed to fix it was to re fit the motor by slightly pushing it to the right to apply more tension on the belt. I know it's not much because of the 3 screws that hold it in place but it's usually enough to stretch the belt. You could also make the holes in the motor assy a tad bigger. That would give you more side movement and more tension on the belt.