[Jamming] PC417 Jams C650i

[tmmdmmm]

There has been very little replicating of this issue. There are times where it will go thousands without jamming and other times where it starts jamming every 50 pages immediately after we stress test and leave.

Only have one of these in my area. Tray 3 was giving 17-30s consistently. Another tech replaced the torque limiter, I got the callback. I replaced the guides and increased idle spring pressure by dropping a small washer under each spring. They dropped slightly, but still remained in the history. Replaced the horizontal drive clutch. 17-30s dropped considerably but still there. Now Tray 3 is on to 13-05s. with some 17-30s and 17-31s still mixed in. Rollers have been replaced a couple times as a HEAVY preventative, A64J564101 Orange and AA2J560000 Blue. The tray total has about 100k through.
Tray 4 only has 5k through it, constant 99-10s. Ordered a replacement PFU for T4.

Our sales hardly sell these, they tend to stick to the 416s. Anyone else go crazy with this tray? I'm about ready to tell my company to just eat the cost and replace it.

[Woxner]

Re: PC417 Jams C650i

Dont use the blue sep rollers. Use red on both. Works much better. Most techs i know do this as well

[Gift]

Re: PC417 Jams C650i

We had the most probs with the conveyance section - there's a modified spring available:

A00J606600	AAV5607500	Compressing Spring

We also noticed that some paper brands/types can cause way more problems than others, especially with LCT trays that are usually more delicate improper paper handling (like not fanning out the paper stack). If nothing seems to work. It won't hurt to provide the customer with a box of sample paper for testing. In EU I was a fan of Navigator Universal paper until it showed problems, especially with KM. Currently I make very good experience with Discovery 75g.

[blackcat4866]

Re: PC417 Jams C650i

I think I'd focus on PS152, PS153, & PS158.

I know it's a little different, but I came across these jams on a 654e. What I found on the 654e was that PS21 (equivalent to PS153 on your machine) the flag was hanging up on a burr in the plastic. Also KM came out with slightly larger horizontal transport rollers to address this exact issue.

I believe that your sensors are reflective ... maybe dusty? Is the resulting jam halfway out of the horizontal transport, halfway into the vertical path? That would indicate to me that PS152 or PS153 was still showing paper present after the paper had passed.

Another thing that caught my eye was the repetition of the phrase " ... if a door is opened & closed ..." for all these jams. Maybe you've got an intermittent doorswitch in the PC-417? That should be easy enough to find: just jiggle the doors to see if the display changes to show "door open". =^..^=

[tmmdmmm]

Re: PC417 Jams C650i

I think I'd focus on PS152, PS153, & PS158.

I know it's a little different, but I came across these jams on a 654e. What I found on the 654e was that PS21 (equivalent to PS153 on your machine) the flag was hanging up on a burr in the plastic. Also KM came out with slightly larger horizontal transport rollers to address this exact issue.

I believe that your sensors are reflective ... maybe dusty? Is the resulting jam halfway out of the horizontal transport, halfway into the vertical path? That would indicate to me that PS152 or PS153 was still showing paper present after the paper had passed.

Another thing that caught my eye was the repetition of the phrase " ... if a door is opened & closed ..." for all these jams. Maybe you've got an intermittent doorswitch in the PC-417? That should be easy enough to find: just jiggle the doors to see if the display changes to show "door open". =^..^=

Thanks! I'll look into most of these the next time I'm there. Sensors have been cleaned but I haven't traced wires yet, only inspected.

Per the door switch, I don't believe a door opening and closing logs a jam in the history and doesnt give a J code, at least it does not on a 654 I fought a while back. It'll just stop the machine and tell you where there's paper. And I can only think of a handful of door sensors where blocked/actuated means open, like that 654 duplex door. Most are opposite

[femaster]

Re: PC417 Jams C650i

While I've never seen the PC-417 in person, it seems to be laid out similar to the dual tray systems that were integrated into the older style copiers (ie C552 style). In those models we found that the J1730 was often caused by the clutch that drove the horizontal conveyance rollers in the unit above tray 4. Not sure how the drive system is set up in this particular tray setup, but if there is a clutch driving those rollers, maybe look into an issue with that.

[tech51]

Re: PC417 Jams C650i

Had a couple of these give this type of intermittent jam.

I eventually found that the exit of the t3 feed assembly was misaligned with the entry to the conveyance section.

Every now and then the paper would hit the top of the conveyance and cause j1730.

I twisted the feed assembly so the paper entered the guide slightly lower and since then have had no further problems.

This was on two machines at different customers.

[tmmdmmm]

Re: PC417 Jams C650i

Had a couple of these give this type of intermittent jam.

I eventually found that the exit of the t3 feed assembly was misaligned with the entry to the conveyance section.

Every now and then the paper would hit the top of the conveyance and cause j1730.

I twisted the feed assembly so the paper entered the guide slightly lower and since then have had no further problems.

This was on two machines at different customers.

Interesting, ill check this route out! Thanks

[tsbservice]

Re: PC417 Jams C650i

There has been very little replicating of this issue. There are times where it will go thousands without jamming and other times where it starts jamming every 50 pages immediately after we stress test and leave.

Only have one of these in my area. Tray 3 was giving 17-30s consistently. Another tech replaced the torque limiter, I got the callback. I replaced the guides and increased idle spring pressure by dropping a small washer under each spring. They dropped slightly, but still remained in the history. Replaced the horizontal drive clutch. 17-30s dropped considerably but still there. Now Tray 3 is on to 13-05s. with some 17-30s and 17-31s still mixed in. Rollers have been replaced a couple times as a HEAVY preventative, A64J564101 Orange and AA2J560000 Blue. The tray total has about 100k through.
Tray 4 only has 5k through it, constant 99-10s. Ordered a replacement PFU for T4.

Our sales hardly sell these, they tend to stick to the 416s. Anyone else go crazy with this tray? I'm about ready to tell my company to just eat the cost and replace it.

Hi tmmdmmm please review this:

Error
PC417, 1730 jam code occurs when feeding paper from Tray 3.

Root Cause
Burr or deformed Horizontal Conveyance Guide/Left.

Workaround/Fix
Remove any burrs from Horizontal Conveyance Guide/Left. Replace Horizontal Conveyance Guide/Left
(p/n AAV5606000) if damaged.

[tmmdmmm]

Re: PC417 Jams C650i

Hi tmmdmmm please review this:

Error
PC417, 1730 jam code occurs when feeding paper from Tray 3.

Root Cause
Burr or deformed Horizontal Conveyance Guide/Left.

Workaround/Fix
Remove any burrs from Horizontal Conveyance Guide/Left. Replace Horizontal Conveyance Guide/Left
(p/n AAV5606000) if damaged.

Thanks! Although one better, that guide had burrs removed then was subsequently replaced with new.