[Misc] Konica C450i Intermittent Paper Empty

[copytechtrouble]

Hello all,
Has anyone else come across and issue with the C450i machines were it will show an intermittent "paper empty" in tray 1?

we now have 2 machines in the field that will show a random "paper empty" in the middle of a print job despite the try being full.
it can also happen when the tray is opened and closed having just added paper. no effort is made to lift the tray (motor doesn't turn) and the orange paper empty light will come on immediately when the tray is closed. opening and closing the tray a number of times will, eventually, get it to lift and show full.

Both machines have around 150k on them and are on the latest Q9 firmware.
So far I've replaced the paper empty sensor in the pickup assembly and also the tray lift mechanism at the back of the machine. neither has solved the issue.
I have a new pickup assembly on order (fingers crossed) but thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone has had a similar issue?

thanks

[Cantechman]

Re: Konica C450i Intermittent Paper Empty

Hello all,
Has anyone else come across and issue with the C450i machines were it will show an intermittent "paper empty" in tray 1?

we now have 2 machines in the field that will show a random "paper empty" in the middle of a print job despite the try being full.
it can also happen when the tray is opened and closed having just added paper. no effort is made to lift the tray (motor doesn't turn) and the orange paper empty light will come on immediately when the tray is closed. opening and closing the tray a number of times will, eventually, get it to lift and show full.

Both machines have around 150k on them and are on the latest Q9 firmware.
So far I've replaced the paper empty sensor in the pickup assembly and also the tray lift mechanism at the back of the machine. neither has solved the issue.
I have a new pickup assembly on order (fingers crossed) but thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone has had a similar issue?

thanks

Not exactly related but i had an issue where paper would just feed out pass the feed rollers of tray 1 and stop every time, replacing the whole paper feed assy fixed it, i was told by tech support to try that.

[tsbservice]

Re: Konica C450i Intermittent Paper Empty

I'm curious did you see that in action or customers are reporting an issue?
Are those machines equipped with intelligent media sensor?

[tech51]

[copytechtrouble]

Re: Konica C450i Intermittent Paper Empty

I'm curious did you see that in action or customers are reporting an issue?
Are those machines equipped with intelligent media sensor?

Yes I've personally seen it in action.
these machines also have the paper type detection sensor as standard but we switch it off on all machines at setup as we have found that it can cause issues with certain custom software some of our clients use.

[rrrohan]

Re: Konica C450i Intermittent Paper Empty

Yes I've personally seen it in action.
these machines also have the paper type detection sensor as standard but we switch it off on all machines at setup as we have found that it can cause issues with certain custom software some of our clients use.

auto paper type would be amazing feature if it actually worked but i dont think any tech has ever said "oh good thing it auto detected the paper type correctly or it might of smudged"

[femaster]

Re: Konica C450i Intermittent Paper Empty

auto paper type would be amazing feature if it actually worked but i dont think any tech has ever said "oh good thing it auto detected the paper type correctly or it might of smudged"

Great idea in theory, but in actual use it's a failure.

What we have found is that customers generally only want to use special paper a few sheets at a time, and only on a rare occasion. If you tell them they can put it in the regular trays because it will auto detect the paper type, they tend to open the drawer and throw just enough sheets of their special paper in the tray to get the job done, but put it on top of their regular paper. So now because the drawer was opened, the auto detection system is activated. They run the job on their thick (or whatever type) paper, the machine detects it and sets the tray for that type of paper, and the job goes off without a hitch. Now because they threw those few sheets of thick paper on top of their regular paper, the customer doesn't need to open the drawer and put the regular paper back in, so the machine never activates the auto detection system and the tray remains set to thick (or whatever) paper type. Now it's service call time because the machine won't print due to "incorrect paper size or type" messages. Complaints that the customer has to walk up to the copier and "select the paper tray" each time they want to print, if they are even smart enough to do that, but then it's "printing (or copying) really slow now", etc. No thanks!

[tsbservice]

Re: Konica C450i Intermittent Paper Empty

Great idea in theory, but in actual use it's a failure.

What we have found is that customers generally only want to use special paper a few sheets at a time, and only on a rare occasion. If you tell them they can put it in the regular trays because it will auto detect the paper type, they tend to open the drawer and throw just enough sheets of their special paper in the tray to get the job done, but put it on top of their regular paper. So now because the drawer was opened, the auto detection system is activated. They run the job on their thick (or whatever type) paper, the machine detects it and sets the tray for that type of paper, and the job goes off without a hitch. Now because they threw those few sheets of thick paper on top of their regular paper, the customer doesn't need to open the drawer and put the regular paper back in, so the machine never activates the auto detection system and the tray remains set to thick (or what) paper type. Now it's service call time because the machine won't print due to "incorrect paper size or type" messages. Complaints that the customer has to walk up to the copier and "select the paper tray" each time the want to print, if they are even smart enough to do that, but then it's "printing (or copying) really slow now", etc. No thanks!

Haha 😂 well described.

[pez]

We've just seen our first erroneous t1 paper empty on a c450i. Firmware is g00-rf. Sounds like exactly the same behaviour: no tray lift sound when closing the tray and the orange paper empty light appears immediately when the tray is closed. Intermittently it does work. Engineer tried a spare tray that he had in the van when he first saw it, thinking that there might have been a problem with one of the fins at the back of the original tray, but no joy.

We've also disabled the paper type detection.

Did you find a resolution to this problem?

[tsbservice]

It is sensor(PS) in feed unit. Will check which one exactly tomorrow and update my post accordingly.
It is very frustrating at the beginning but not bad when you know what it's

[tsbservice]

Upon refreshing my memory I think it was PS24 tray 1 paper empty sensor.

[SAR]

i've had this issue on 4 different i series machines and the fix on every one of them has been to simply swap the PS24 and PS25 sensors.
They are the same sensor, so the first time I came across this issue, it was so intermittent I decided to swap the sensors to see if I would get a different problem.
This fixed the issue and I never heard back from that customer (2 years)and since then I have had this issue 3 more times where swapping those 2 sensors has fixed the issue.
The wiring is very tight going to those sensors, so maybe it has something to do with that. The sensor part # is A5C1M50100 photointerrupter, if you want to replace it.

[pez]

Cheers all, replaced PS24 and PS25 and problem vanished.

[kingarthur]

There's a bulletin

PSEU_BT2510306EN

that says the cable tie holding the wiring loom going to PS24 is too tight

[KMFLT3CH]

There's a bulletin

PSEU_BT2510306EN

that says the cable tie holding the wiring loom going to PS24 is too tight

Are you able to post that bulletin? I'd like to cross reference it with the US based KM knowledge base to see if we have something similar. Seems like some of the bulletins across the pond don't get published stateside and vice versa.