Zeus is kicking my ass again.

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  • blackcat4866
    Master Of The Obvious

    Site Contributor
    10,000+ Posts
    • Jul 2007
    • 22999
    #1

    Zeus is kicking my ass again.

    It's a KM-8000i that started out with J4913 jams. When it first started it would jam once or twice, then print several thousand. I seems to be getting worser and worser. It will no longer pass any paper.

    Early on (3.5M prints), I had changed the conveying rollers, paper feed flags & springs, and decurl roller. Today I changed all the photointerrupters in the bridge. When I arrived there was a J4914 jam that would not clear. After changing the sensors I got C1410 and J0132 jams (de-curl rotation error). If I go into U031, BRSW2 will randomly appear blocked or unblocked. Just to be sure, I installed 3 more photointerrupters with the same result.

    So I've got all three sensors in the bridge randomly changing state. It's possible, of course, that the engine board is bad but I'm leaning towards the bridge controller as the culprit. It's the randomness that bothers me. Has anyone seen something like this?

    Zeus.jpg

    =^..^=
    Last edited by blackcat4866; 12-04-2015, 02:21 AM.
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=
    Tags: None
    • wragsdale
      Trusted Tech

      100+ Posts
      • Jul 2014
      • 188
      #2
      Re: Zeus is kicking my ass again.

      All of our high volume 8000i's have already been replaced and none of them exceeded 4M. I haven't seen issues as systemic as you've described but I have witnessed some inexplicable bridge sensor behavior.

      In one case with a persistent blocked sensor I disassembled the bridge, found nothing, and the problem seemed to disappear. No recurrence though and it's unlikely that it was caused by either PWB. In your case though, your hunch (BRMPWB) seems the next best step!

        Comment

        • Kyo fan
          Trusted Tech

          250+ Posts
          • Dec 2013
          • 368
          #3
          Re: Zeus is kicking my ass again.

          We don't have any of those over 2 mil yet, so the headaches are bearable. Looking at those C1410 and J0132 jams you have, there's a bulletin on it, where you replace actuator + stopper as set:

          stopper.jpg

          PARTS ACTUATOR PRESS SET SP (302LF94520)

            Comment

            • blackcat4866
              Master Of The Obvious

              Site Contributor
              10,000+ Posts
              • Jul 2007
              • 22999
              #4
              Re: Zeus is kicking my ass again.

              Originally posted by Kyo fan
              We don't have any of those over 2 mil yet, so the headaches are bearable. Looking at those C1410 and J0132 jams you have, there's a bulletin on it, where you replace actuator + stopper as set:

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]31390[/ATTACH]

              PARTS ACTUATOR PRESS SET SP (302LF94520)
              Thanks for the information Kyo fan, but I'm not that worried about that actuator coming off. Sure it currently does not have a clip, but it's behind the copier's exit section frame, and it would take dynamite to blast it past the exit section. It can't really escape. I've had that drive unit out four times Thursday, so I am intimately familiar with it.

              I'm really getting irritated with this machine. Still waiting on the bridge unit controller PWB. =^..^=
              If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
              1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
              2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
              3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
              4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
              5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

              blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                Comment

                • Iowatech
                  Not a service manager

                  2,500+ Posts
                  • Dec 2009
                  • 3930
                  #5
                  Re: Zeus is kicking my ass again.

                  Does the bridge unit has interlocks on it? There were a few on Ricohs that the actuators for those interlocks were not quite long enough, they caused random jams until I built them up with double sided tape.
                  Sorry if that was a waste of time.

                    Comment

                    • blackcat4866
                      Master Of The Obvious

                      Site Contributor
                      10,000+ Posts
                      • Jul 2007
                      • 22999
                      #6
                      Re: Zeus is kicking my ass again.

                      Originally posted by Iowatech
                      Does the bridge unit has interlocks on it? There were a few on Ricohs that the actuators for those interlocks were not quite long enough, they caused random jams until I built them up with double sided tape.
                      Sorry if that was a waste of time.
                      I did give it some thought, but it's not a particularly easy theory to test out. I think I have a picture:

                      Zeus J4913-1.JPG

                      Do you see the ground spring on the front of the drive unit? About 39mm to the right of that you can see the plunger of the bridge interlock switch. It does change state from infinite to 0 ohms. This particular switch does not appear in the U031 sensor diagnostics. It is directly behind the bridge unit, so you cannot see it at all with the bridge closed. Additionally, the only place you could pin out the switch is on the bridge unit controller, trapped between the back wall of the copier and the back of the bridge unit, completely inaccessible. I can be fairly certain that the interlock is being made though. When the MFP is in one of it's moods, BRSW2 shows blocked any time the bridge unit is inserted (and the interlock made).

                      Zeus J4913-3.JPG

                      I think I've got that one covered. Thanks for the ideas. =^..^=
                      If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                      1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                      2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                      3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                      4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                      5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                      blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                        Comment

                        • blackcat4866
                          Master Of The Obvious

                          Site Contributor
                          10,000+ Posts
                          • Jul 2007
                          • 22999
                          #7
                          Re: Zeus is kicking my ass again.

                          The bridge unit controller + (3) new photointerrupters seems to have done the trick. It ran 1000 duplex without a hitch. I'm going to cross my fingers and wait. =^..^=
                          If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                          1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                          2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                          3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                          4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                          5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                          blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                            Comment

                            • blackcat4866
                              Master Of The Obvious

                              Site Contributor
                              10,000+ Posts
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 22999
                              #8
                              Re: Zeus is kicking my ass again.

                              Back again today. It was better though. (6) jams in 24 hours. I thought since I had pretty much exhausted the bridge unit investigation, maybe I'd look at the exit assembly. Here is the exit sensor flag:

                              J4913-1.JPGJ4913-2.JPG

                              With the right door off, I could see that the exit sensor just barely moves because the flag is so worn. I don't have a new flag to install, but a fairly simple MacGuyver seems to help. The original flag is sandwiched between two layers of plastic, glued, trimmed, shaped, and smoothed. A little additional trimming was required to get the return spring installed.

                              J4913-3.JPGJ4913-4.JPG

                              I printed a couple thousand without a jam ... just like the earlier visits. Time will tell if it makes any difference =^..^=
                              If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                              1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                              2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                              3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                              4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                              5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                              blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                Comment

                                • NeoMatrix
                                  Senior Tech.

                                  2,500+ Posts
                                  • Nov 2010
                                  • 3514
                                  #9
                                  Re: Zeus is kicking my ass again.

                                  The MacGuyer flag repair looks like a winner. You could be onto the problem.
                                  Is the exit ass'y warped or out of plumb ? Check it on a flat surface or platen glass.
                                  Inauguration to the "AI cancel-culture" fraternity 1997...
                                  •••••• •••[§]• |N | € | o | M | Δ | t | π | ¡ | x | •[§]••• ••••••

                                    Comment

                                    • blackcat4866
                                      Master Of The Obvious

                                      Site Contributor
                                      10,000+ Posts
                                      • Jul 2007
                                      • 22999
                                      #10
                                      Re: Zeus is kicking my ass again.

                                      Originally posted by NeoMatrix
                                      The MacGuyer flag repair looks like a winner. You could be onto the problem.
                                      Is the exit ass'y warped or out of plumb ? Check it on a flat surface or platen glass.
                                      It looked surprisingly good. I've seem plenty of Sharp and Kyocera delivery units that warp and crumble from the unrelenting exposure to fuser heat. =^..^=
                                      If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                      1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                      2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                      3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                      4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                      5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                      blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                        Comment

                                        • tmaged
                                          Owner/Service Manager

                                          Site Contributor
                                          1,000+ Posts
                                          • Oct 2008
                                          • 1869
                                          #11
                                          Re: Zeus is kicking my ass again.

                                          QA_201307_D148-2LC-0123.pdfNow that you post that, I do recall our Kyo rep mentioning sensors wearing down on high volume machine causing jamming issues. I don't however remember a bulletin regarding it. I'll see if I can locate one.

                                          Edit: I attached the only one I can find.
                                          Hope that helps !
                                          -Tony
                                          www.dtios.com
                                          Become a fan on Facebook

                                            Comment

                                            • monstott2010
                                              #12
                                              Re: Zeus is kicking my ass again.

                                              Sounds like you may have it taken care of, but just in case, here's another thread from a while back, similar issues, maybe helpful, maybe not.....

                                              http://www.copytechnet.com/forums/ky...18-5011-a.html

                                                Comment

                                                • blackcat4866
                                                  Master Of The Obvious

                                                  Site Contributor
                                                  10,000+ Posts
                                                  • Jul 2007
                                                  • 22999
                                                  #13
                                                  Re: Zeus is kicking my ass again.

                                                  Originally posted by monstott2010
                                                  Sounds like you may have it taken care of, but just in case, here's another thread from a while back, similar issues, maybe helpful, maybe not.....

                                                  http://www.copytechnet.com/forums/ky...18-5011-a.html
                                                  Thanks monstott. Today was the first time in a week that I didn't start the day at that machine. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. =^..^=
                                                  If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                                  1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                                  2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                                  3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                                  4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                                  5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                                  blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                                    Comment

                                                    • blackcat4866
                                                      Master Of The Obvious

                                                      Site Contributor
                                                      10,000+ Posts
                                                      • Jul 2007
                                                      • 22999
                                                      #14
                                                      Re: Zeus is kicking my ass again.

                                                      Just to follow up, there have been a total of (4) paper jams in the last 200K, none of them in the exit or bridge. I'm going to take that as success. I do carry the flag now, so I can retire my MacGuyver'ed sensor flag the next time I have the fuser out.

                                                      The sister machine is at 1.99M already. I'll be watching for the bridge jams.
                                                      I noticed something interesting on the PF770 LCT last visit. I don't know if it's just their paper, but if you stack the whole 3000 pages in there, the ends of the stack are a full 12mm higher than the center. As a result the paper tends to jam and flip corners. If you only stack it to 2000 it's fine. As an experiment, I cut some corrugated cardboard 8.5" x 6.5", 8.5" x 7.5", and 8.5" x 8.5", then stacked them up smallest at the top, and taped the whole mess to the lift plate. Now the whole stack sets perfectly level at 3000 pages, and has about a 9mm crown by the time you get to the bottom of the stack. This doesn't seem to cause any kind of a problem.

                                                      I don't remember encountering this problem on the other Kyocera LCT's (PF-650, PF-660). Maybe this is why Kyocera typically does not try to stack 3000 to 4000 sheets in one pile. Because it usually ends up not being a level pile. I seem to recall addressing this same sort of issue on an HP LJ9050, not because it was 3000 sheets, but because they were printing onto flat foldable window envelopes, and the additional layer of clear plastic thickened up the one side of the stack considerably. I seem to recall making a wedge shape to even up the LTR stack so it would feed. Has anyone else addressed this? =^..^=
                                                      If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                                      1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                                      2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                                      3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                                      4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                                      5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                                      blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                                        Comment

                                                        • ccfc87
                                                          Technician
                                                          • Feb 2014
                                                          • 18
                                                          #15
                                                          Re: Zeus is kicking my ass again.

                                                          We have a 6651ci with intermittent C1410. De curler motor error

                                                          A new Exit unit above the Fuser and Exit Unit from Bridge to Finisher has been installed. A new Bridge Unit and Bridge Unit drive assy too! the sensor actuator mod from 2014 has also been done....Running out of ideas other than engine board now.

                                                          Any suggestions appreciated.

                                                            Comment

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