[Misc] Kyocera 3551ci with DF770 finisher tray not lifting; always saying full...

[The Copy Man]

Kyocera 3551ci with DF-770 finisher tray not lifting; tray stays at the bottom and always says finisher tray full on the display. Upon arrival to the customer it said there was a problem with the Finisher so I ran a 906 to restore control. However after doing that the Finisher tray motored all the way down, stayed at the bottom and displayed Finisher Tray Full message. I checked and cleaned the two black sensors pointing toward each other at the top of the finisher and no help. I even checked for voltage change on my meter when blocking the two sensors. No change on the meter. I set the machine to have copies and prints land on the top tray instead of the finisher left tray and it works that way to get them by but they can't stack or staple with the left tray; totally inoperable. I went to service mode to test the finisher tray lift motor and no go. I removed the back cover of the finisher and cleaned / reconnected all the connectors on the finisher main board and still no go. Finally I removed the finisher tray lift motor and manually lifted the tray to the upper most position then put the motor back on and when turning the machine on again the tray moves all the way to the bottom and stays there then displays the finisher tray full message again. Also returned and updated the FW. Still no help. What's next? Tray full sensors? Board? Both? Stumped...

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera 3551ci with DF770 finisher tray not lifting; always saying full...

I've seen a lot of boards go bad in the DF-770's and cause some weird problems. I'd try replacing if you have one before wasting a lot of time troubleshooting.

The last time I ran into a bad PWB on the DF-770, it was constantly stapling even when the copier wasn't being used. The finisher was full of spent stables.

[KYO_OEM]

Re: Kyocera 3551ci with DF770 finisher tray not lifting; always saying full...

U241/ Tray Top always on?
Punch unit installed?( disconnect PH unit for checking, PH PWB maybe broken)

[The Copy Man]

Re: Kyocera 3551ci with DF770 finisher tray not lifting; always saying full...

U241/ Tray Top always on?
Punch unit installed?( disconnect PH unit for checking, PH PWB maybe broken)

Thanks they do have the hole punch unit which they never use. When you say PH unit do you mean the hole punch unit? I'm going today to check top tray status with U241. So if it's always on just disconnect the PH unit from the main board on the finisher? Do you recall which connector(s) that is?

[KYO_OEM]

Re: Kyocera 3551ci with DF770 finisher tray not lifting; always saying full...

Punch.JPG
have had several unknown problems with finishers because of faulty punch pwb. (c-calls, jamming or else. must be some wrong electrical noise.)
In most cases, we have had broken tray surface sensor problems...

[kyotechnz]

Re: Kyocera 3551ci with DF770 finisher tray not lifting; always saying full...

Is it only happening at certain times of the day?
Have had finishers do weird thing when sunlight hits the sensors.

[The Copy Man]

Re: Kyocera 3551ci with DF770 finisher tray not lifting; always saying full...

Thanks they do have the hole punch unit which they never use. When you say PH unit do you mean the hole punch unit? I'm going today to check top tray status with U241. So if it's always on just disconnect the PH unit from the main board on the finisher? Do you recall which connector(s) that is?

Tried disconnecting the PH and no help. Got a used finisher board, tray lift motor and sensor kit coming. We'll see what happens...

[blackcat4866]

Re: Kyocera 3551ci with DF770 finisher tray not lifting; always saying full...

So you put the meter on the receiver and got no change, correct? Those sensors have three connections:
-Ground
-5vdc
-Output 0-~5vdc

So start with the sender. Make sure that you have ground and 5vdc to the sender.
Now go to the receiver. Make sure that you have ground and 5vdc at the receiver. Leave the negative at the ground connection and move the positive to the output. What do you get? If you block the sensor what do you get?

So you might be missing the 5vdc at the sender or receiver. Could be the finisher controller or a harness issue.
The sensors might be misaligned. I would not touch that alignment unless I was sure that the sender or receiver is bad.

I have replaced those sensors a few times, but always it was caused by something else. =^..^=

[Santander]

Re: Kyocera 3551ci with DF770 finisher tray not lifting; always saying full...

Have you checked or replaced the tray home position sensor? After you performed the 906 reset, you said the tray moved to the bottom. That would indicate that the finisher did not recognize the tray movement away from the home position and just continued to drive the tray until it reached the lower limit sensor. On a working finisher you will notice the tray move down then back up when turning the system on as the finisher determines where the tray is and is in the home position. The paper surface sensors only come into play after the finisher knows where the tray is to start.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera 3551ci with DF770 finisher tray not lifting; always saying full...

Have you checked or replaced the tray home position sensor? After you performed the 906 reset, you said the tray moved to the bottom. That would indicate that the finisher did not recognize the tray movement away from the home position and just continued to drive the tray until it reached the lower limit sensor. On a working finisher you will notice the tray move down then back up when turning the system on as the finisher determines where the tray is and is in the home position. The paper surface sensors only come into play after the finisher knows where the tray is to start.

That's true, but why is it saying that the finisher is full? That would indicate to me that the tray is moving down because it thinks the tray is full. I could be wrong.

[The Copy Man]

Re: Kyocera 3551ci with DF770 finisher tray not lifting; always saying full...

Okay here is the latest: Tried disconnecting the hole punch unit; no help. Even cleaned and reconnected all connectors on finisher main board and hole punch board; no help there either. I even removed the tray lift motor and ran it in my hand because it's making a buzzing noise when motoring the tray down each time. However when I move the tray up and down by hand with motor removed it's not binding or hard to move; feels normal. Even the motor running in my hand sounded smooth and normal. I even lifted the tray so the rear sensor flag would be between the top sensor forcing the tray to start in home position. However, after powering up the machine it just motors down to the next sensor (middle) making that weird buzzing noise then throws a C8150 code. I then do a 906 and after power cycling the machine the tray just motors all the way to the bottom and stays right there. Got a good used finisher board, tray lift motor and sensor kit ordered and coming. We'll see what happens and I'll keep you guys informed...

[Luther]

Re: Kyocera 3551ci with DF770 finisher tray not lifting; always saying full...

I would check the worm gear on the tray lift motor, the gear may be worn but works going down but cant go up that may be the buzzing you hear. i have replaced quite a few

[CWP]

Re: Kyocera 3551ci with DF770 finisher tray not lifting; always saying full...

Listen to what Blackcat has to say. The finisher appears to functioning correctly mechanically. It thinks the tray is full and moves the tray down until it hits the lower limit. If you don't believe him, try this as a test: block the tray sensor on a working 1000 sheet finisher (or its 4000 sheet counterpart) and power the machine on, then watch the tray move down. If that is not the problem then you move on with troubleshooting. Or, you can replace all the parts everyone else has suggested without troubleshooting (main pwb, motors, worm gears, etc.) and eventually you will get it fixed or you will have more invested in it than a new or used replacement finisher.

[Santander]

Re: Kyocera 3551ci with DF770 finisher tray not lifting; always saying full...

That's true, but why is it saying that the finisher is full? That would indicate to me that the tray is moving down because it thinks the tray is full. I could be wrong.

No, on start up after a 906 reset the finisher is looking for the home position, not if the tray is full. The indication that the tray is full is due to the tray reaching the bottom sensor after not seeing the tray home position activated.

[The Copy Man]

Re: Kyocera 3551ci with DF770 finisher tray not lifting; always saying full...

Okay here is the latest: I replaced the tray full sensors (2 eyeball sensors at the top), replaced the finisher control board and the tray lift motor. Still have the same problem. Like I never touched it. Going today to replace the home position sensor which I believe is the middle sensor? Anyhoo I know the bottom sensor works great because the tray always lands there LOL! Also do I have to calibrate the tray full sensors at the top? Or as long as the little nipple is in the hole before screwing down is okay?