TaskAlfa 5002i, Background, stupid Endcustomer

[KYO_OEM]

Sometimes i am wondering about creative Endcustomers..
Dealer called for background on 5002i
Check from reports and eventlog, all values looks good
Only thing i found was same toner serialnumber 80K ago.
After mounting from new DV system was running well without background
Next morning, ~ 500 pages later, endcustomer called again for background
Check from toner cartridge, red label on black toner cartridge hidden.
After using from brand new cartridge and running full solid pages, printouts/ copies with a little bit less background
New DV again and no more background visible
At least, customer told the tech:
Yes, we prepaired shutter from old cartridge, because this cartridge won`t fit before this would done....
I have heard from other dealer that endcustomer used a ruler to remove the stopper for protecting the usage for waste toner cartridges......
But prepairing the shutter was the first time for me...

As i ever told during my technical trainings/ visits to the technicians
"Never trust a technician and never trust a endcustomer"
Check maintenance reports and eventlog--> the system don`t lie...
I don`t knpow how often i heard from tech: YES i had done it"
Finally after checking from some points of report i got the answer
This would done from my colleague, not from me
But i asked HIM if it would done from himself....
e.g. U251/ Maintenance HT would set to "0" automatically after running U410 successfully or running from Halftone Adjustment by system menue/ Adjustment maintenance with the result "OK"
Used for waste.JPG
visible if cartridge would used for waste

[copier tech]

Re: TaskAlfa 5002i, Background, stupid Endcustomer

Sometimes i am wondering about creative Endcustomers..
Dealer called for background on 5002i
Check from reports and eventlog, all values looks good
Only thing i found was same toner serialnumber 80K ago.
After mounting from new DV system was running well without background
Next morning, ~ 500 pages later, endcustomer called again for background
Check from toner cartridge, red label on black toner cartridge hidden.
After using from brand new cartridge and running full solid pages, printouts/ copies with a little bit less background
New DV again and no more background visible
At least, customer told the tech:
Yes, we prepaired shutter from old cartridge, because this cartridge won`t fit before this would done....
I have heard from other dealer that endcustomer used a ruler to remove the stopper for protecting the usage for waste toner cartridges......
But prepairing the shutter was the first time for me...

As i ever told during my technical trainings/ visits to the technicians
"Never trust a technician and never trust a endcustomer"
Check maintenance reports and eventlog--> the system don`t lie...
I don`t knpow how often i heard from tech: YES i had done it"
Finally after checking from some points of report i got the answer
This would done from my colleague, not from me
But i asked HIM if it would done from himself....
e.g. U251/ Maintenance HT would set to "0" automatically after running U410 successfully or running from Halftone Adjustment by system menue/ Adjustment maintenance with the result "OK"
[ATTACH=CONFIG]48069[/ATTACH]
visible if cartridge would used for waste

I supply all my clients with new waste toner bottles for this very reason.

Simply never mention that they can fit the empty black as a waste toner, this was a terrible idea by Kyocera.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: TaskAlfa 5002i, Background, stupid Endcustomer

This is interesting but I'm not understanding. (I've never worked on the 2-series)

What exactly was causing the backgrounding?

Why did toner cartridge show the same serial number after 80k pages had been printed?


What i did gather from from copier tech is that reusing the toner cartridge for waste toner is not a good idea and don't tell the customer that they can do that.

[copier tech]

Re: TaskAlfa 5002i, Background, stupid Endcustomer

This is interesting but I'm not understanding. (I've never worked on the 2-series)

What exactly was causing the backgrounding?

Why did toner cartridge show the same serial number after 80k pages had been printed?


What i did gather from from copier tech is that reusing the toner cartridge for waste toner is not a good idea and don't tell the customer that they can do that.

On the 2 series the customer can fit reuse the empty black toner as a waste toner. However when this is full off waste some clients manage to fit this back into the black slot thus till the dev unit with waste toner!

There is a mechanism to prevent this however this can be reversed.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: TaskAlfa 5002i, Background, stupid Endcustomer

On the 2 series the customer can fit reuse the empty black toner as a waste toner. However when this is full off waste some clients manage to fit this back into the black slot thus till the dev unit with waste toner!

There is a mechanism to prevent this however this can be reversed.

Thanks. It all makes sense now. That's crazy.

[KYO_OEM]

Re: TaskAlfa 5002i, Background, stupid Endcustomer

@Billy.
from technical specifications, it is possible to use empty bk cartridge for waste instead of new empty waste box.
If now the endcustomer is using the full wastebox instead of new bk cartridge for toner, you will get background.
Waste included paperdust, humidity, less carrier etc....
On eventlog you can see how many cartridges would used, which serialnumber would mounted, at which counter it would done.
eg.
during installation cartridge with serialnumber #xxxx1 would installed at counter 0
new bk cartridge mounted after 30.000 pages with serial number xxxx2, because system showed Toner empty and toner cover opened automatically only if U159 would set to empty
30.000 pages later cartridge #xxxx3
30.000 pages later cartridge #xxxx4
30.000 pages later again cartridge #xxxx1 again
expected lifetime for each cartridge = 30.000 pages
How it is possible to use empty cartridge again?
Why RFID chip won`t show 0% remaining? This is the only point i don`t understand.

[copier tech]

Re: TaskAlfa 5002i, Background, stupid Endcustomer

Thanks. It all makes sense now. That's crazy.

In theory it is a great idea, saving 100,000's of empty black cartridges going to land fill & most if the time it works just fine.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: TaskAlfa 5002i, Background, stupid Endcustomer

@Billy.
from technical specifications, it is possible to use empty bk cartridge for waste instead of new empty waste box.
If now the endcustomer is using the full wastebox instead of new bk cartridge for toner, you will get background.
Waste included paperdust, humidity, less carrier etc....
On eventlog you can see how many cartridges would used, which serialnumber would mounted, at which counter it would done.
eg.
during installation cartridge with serialnumber #xxxx1 would installed at counter 0
new bk cartridge mounted after 30.000 pages with serial number xxxx2, because system showed Toner empty and toner cover opened automatically only if U159 would set to empty
30.000 pages later cartridge #xxxx3
30.000 pages later cartridge #xxxx4
30.000 pages later again cartridge #xxxx1 again
expected lifetime for each cartridge = 30.000 pages
How it is possible to use empty cartridge again?
Why RFID chip won`t show 0% remaining? This is the only point i don`t understand.

I understand now. Thanks.

I've learned a lot from you. Maybe the most important thing I learned from you is to trust no one and read the event long/maintenance report...it doesn't lie. I ALWAYS read these reports before I do anything to a machine. It's the first thing I do.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: TaskAlfa 5002i, Background, stupid Endcustomer

Also, KYO says that by the customer reusing the waste toner that there will be less carrier in the DV unit. I take this to mean that Kyocera toner has some carrier in the actual toner?

[KYO_OEM]

Re: TaskAlfa 5002i, Background, stupid Endcustomer

On Venus we have had CASS system, if CASS would closed you`ll get C7460
cass.JPG
Sorry, small mistake from my side
On Iris series we take out waste toner from DK only to waste drive unit (mounted behind DR-8550/ 8560)
No C7460 available, no CASS system available.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: TaskAlfa 5002i, Background, stupid Endcustomer

On Venus we have had CASS system, if CASS would closed you`ll get C7460
[ATTACH=CONFIG]48072[/ATTACH]
Sorry, small mistake from my side
On Iris series we take out waste toner from DK only to waste drive unit (mounted behind DR-8550/ 8560)
No C7460 available, no CASS system available.

KYO,

You always post interesting things that make me have to stop and think.

I probably have this wrong but here's my understanding of your diagram.

The way Kyocera manages to get long life from the DV unit. is that is has a reserve of developer that is added when the machine detects a high level of toner usage and then some of the old developer is deposited in the waste toner bottle. And the reserve developer is added by the 3rd roller in the diagram?

[KYO_OEM]

Re: TaskAlfa 5002i, Background, stupid Endcustomer

Maybe understandig will be a little bit easier by this picture
Carrier.JPG

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: TaskAlfa 5002i, Background, stupid Endcustomer

Maybe understandig will be a little bit easier by this picture
[ATTACH=CONFIG]48073[/ATTACH]

Much easier to understand from that diagram. The new carrier is in the toner cartridge.

[blackcat4866]

Re: TaskAlfa 5002i, Background, stupid Endcustomer

All true. This extends the life of the developer. And the additional paper dust and lint do not improve the image quality. =^..^=

[BBM]

Re: TaskAlfa 5002i, Background, stupid Endcustomer

We tell are endusers when it says ADD TONER to take the empty toner bottle and no matter what put it in the waste toner slot everytime no matter if the machine says it or not . This has elimanated the customer throwing away the empty bottle and not having the waste bottle fill up with no empty one to replace.