KM-5052ci, "Add Black Toner" when images are over 5% fill

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  • blackcat4866
    Master Of The Obvious

    Site Contributor
    10,000+ Posts
    • Jul 2007
    • 22698

    KM-5052ci, "Add Black Toner" when images are over 5% fill

    Let me just say at the outset that the cartridge is full, new, and it rotates when it's supposed to. The image quality is good, and the orifice into the black developing unit is not packed to the top, like you might see if it was agitating poorly. The cartridge is not compacted, moves easily, and pours out if you open the outlet and rotate the bottle.

    I had a suspicion that there was some sort of a blockage in the toner feed tube. My long handled mirror is only 16" long, so it comes up a bit short of seeing the tube. So ... lets dig in. I've already heard rumors that the job is somewhat unpleasant.

    About the time I got to the toner feed tube, my customer peeks through the middle of the copier at me, and says: "This looks bad. I've never seen it this far apart before." I responded: " ... and you probably won't again."

    toner add1.jpg

    I was kinda surprised to see this interesting looking filter over the toner feed tube. I did a little math, and it lets only 40% of the toner into the tube. Then I looked at the other tubes, and there is no filter. It's not a filter at all really, it's a leather gasket, that's supposed to help the toner cartridge to slide into place. But the black toner cartridge caught on the edge of the gasket and split the leather into two pieces, laying a flap over the tube opening. When I untangled the flap it looked like this:

    toner add2.jpg

    You can see the pattern of holes matches the the layer still securely stuck on. Since the other layer was so securely attached, I thought we could do quite nicely without the filter layer, and I snipped it neatly off, which looks like this.

    toner add3.jpg

    If you're planning on doing this for the first time, you should plan three hours. The disconcerting part is that you have no way of confirming that this is the cause until you've go the machine stripped. Having done it, I think I could probably do two hours ... you know, cut out the head scratching part.

    If you're really lucky you won't ever have to try this. =^..^=
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=
  • slimslob
    Retired

    Site Contributor
    25,000+ Posts
    • May 2013
    • 35057

    #2
    Re: KM-5052ci, "Add Black Toner" when images are over 5% fill

    Good find David. Hope you don't have to go back sometime in the future and replace the gasket because something else does not line up quite right.

    Comment

    • blackcat4866
      Master Of The Obvious

      Site Contributor
      10,000+ Posts
      • Jul 2007
      • 22698

      #3
      Re: KM-5052ci, "Add Black Toner" when images are over 5% fill

      Originally posted by slimslob
      Good find David. Hope you don't have to go back sometime in the future and replace the gasket because something else does not line up quite right.
      Shhh! Don't say that. =^..^=
      If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
      1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
      2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
      3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
      4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
      5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

      blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

      Comment

      • KYO_OEM
        Senior Tech

        500+ Posts
        • Aug 2011
        • 636

        #4
        Re: KM-5052ci, "Add Black Toner" when images are over 5% fill

        have seen it several times...
        approx 2 hours working time if you do it first time.
        meanwhile <1h for me...
        Toner hopper blocked.jpg

        Comment

        • copier tech
          Field Supervisor

          5,000+ Posts
          • Jan 2014
          • 7930

          #5
          Re: KM-5052ci, &quot;Add Black Toner&quot; when images are over 5% fill

          Originally posted by blackcat4866
          Let me just say at the outset that the cartridge is full, new, and it rotates when it's supposed to. The image quality is good, and the orifice into the black developing unit is not packed to the top, like you might see if it was agitating poorly. The cartridge is not compacted, moves easily, and pours out if you open the outlet and rotate the bottle.

          I had a suspicion that there was some sort of a blockage in the toner feed tube. My long handled mirror is only 16" long, so it comes up a bit short of seeing the tube. So ... lets dig in. I've already heard rumors that the job is somewhat unpleasant.

          About the time I got to the toner feed tube, my customer peeks through the middle of the copier at me, and says: "This looks bad. I've never seen it this far apart before." I responded: " ... and you probably won't again."

          [ATTACH=CONFIG]48138[/ATTACH]

          I was kinda surprised to see this interesting looking filter over the toner feed tube. I did a little math, and it lets only 40% of the toner into the tube. Then I looked at the other tubes, and there is no filter. It's not a filter at all really, it's a leather gasket, that's supposed to help the toner cartridge to slide into place. But the black toner cartridge caught on the edge of the gasket and split the leather into two pieces, laying a flap over the tube opening. When I untangled the flap it looked like this:

          [ATTACH=CONFIG]48139[/ATTACH]

          You can see the pattern of holes matches the the layer still securely stuck on. Since the other layer was so securely attached, I thought we could do quite nicely without the filter layer, and I snipped it neatly off, which looks like this.

          [ATTACH=CONFIG]48137[/ATTACH]

          If you're planning on doing this for the first time, you should plan three hours. The disconcerting part is that you have no way of confirming that this is the cause until you've go the machine stripped. Having done it, I think I could probably do two hours ... you know, cut out the head scratching part.

          If you're really lucky you won't ever have to try this. =^..^=
          Wow thanks for the detailed info, one to look out for!

          Out of interest what sort of count was the machine on? roughly how many toners were replaced before this issue can happen!?
          Let us eat, drink, and be merry, because tomorrow we may die!

          For all your firmware & service manual needs please visit us at:

          www.copierfirmware.co.uk - www.printerfirmware.co.uk

          ​

          Comment

          • toddanderson
            Trusted Tech

            100+ Posts
            • Dec 2005
            • 221

            #6
            Re: KM-5052ci, &quot;Add Black Toner&quot; when images are over 5% fill

            I have not seen the issue yet, but cant you scrape it off with a long screw driver than vacuum

            Comment

            • KYO_OEM
              Senior Tech

              500+ Posts
              • Aug 2011
              • 636

              #7
              Re: KM-5052ci, &quot;Add Black Toner&quot; when images are over 5% fill

              By this procedure you can`t see if you removed every part of the sponge.
              Sometimes small parts are remaining in the toner pipe....

              Comment

              • blackcat4866
                Master Of The Obvious

                Site Contributor
                10,000+ Posts
                • Jul 2007
                • 22698

                #8
                Re: KM-5052ci, &quot;Add Black Toner&quot; when images are over 5% fill

                487K black, 227K color.

                I could never have done it through the tube. My hands are way too big and I couldn't see a thing. The gasket was completely tucked under the spring loaded cover. Unlike yours KYO_OEM, I did not have any shredded bits in the tube. Actually this was exploratory surgery, so I had no idea what I would find. I was pretty happy to find a smoking gun, after all that disassembly time.
                =^..^=
                If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                Comment

                • daveh12
                  Trusted Tech

                  100+ Posts
                  • Jul 2012
                  • 157

                  #9
                  Re: KM-5052ci, &quot;Add Black Toner&quot; when images are over 5% fill

                  Looks like a horrible job to do for something so flimsy. Thanks for pointing out this issue. Hope I never see it.

                  Comment

                  • blackcat4866
                    Master Of The Obvious

                    Site Contributor
                    10,000+ Posts
                    • Jul 2007
                    • 22698

                    #10
                    Re: KM-5052ci, &quot;Add Black Toner&quot; when images are over 5% fill

                    From what I've been reading I think we're destined to see a few.

                    Just the overview of getting to it:
                    U159 Cartridge Lock to OFF, Toner bottles out.
                    Finisher and DP off.
                    Top rear cover, side rear covers off.
                    Unplug a few connectors to swing cage box away.
                    HVT fan off (towards the door side)
                    Harnesses untethered, HVT contact plastic thing off.
                    (5) screws out of the HVT assembly.
                    Pull out the HVT just enough to get the back cover off, and (3) connectors out (mark the two identical ones)
                    Bottle rotator assembly off.

                    Voila! Sounds simple. =^..^=
                    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                    Comment

                    • nathicana
                      Trusted Tech

                      Site Contributor
                      250+ Posts
                      • Aug 2008
                      • 322

                      #11
                      Re: KM-5052ci, &quot;Add Black Toner&quot; when images are over 5% fill

                      Follow the instructions in the service manual to remove the Toner Supply Drive Unit

                      Device MemoryhomeuserpicturesIMG00281.jpg

                      Comment

                      • KYO_OEM
                        Senior Tech

                        500+ Posts
                        • Aug 2011
                        • 636

                        #12
                        Re: KM-5052ci, &quot;Add Black Toner&quot; when images are over 5% fill

                        how to find in service manual
                        Toner supply.JPG

                        Comment

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