3551ci: Solid Black page

[BillyCarpenter]

Got a call today for solid black pages. The customer said this happens when making copies from the doc. feeder and platen glass. Also when printing from PC. When I got there it was printing fine and couldn't reproduce the problem.

Anyone seen this before?

[copier tech]

Re: 3551ci: Solid Black page

Got a call today for solid black pages. The customer said this happens when making copies from the doc. feeder and platen glass. Also when printing from PC. When I got there it was printing fine and couldn't reproduce the problem.

Anyone seen this before?

Did they save you any printed samples of the fault ?

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: 3551ci: Solid Black page

Did they save you any printed samples of the fault ?

Well, they had me dig 'em out of the trash can. The full pages were black.

[blackcat4866]

Re: 3551ci: Solid Black page

The thing to pay attention to is whether there was an image void on the all black page. If there is an image void, the laser is functioning, and you have an image processing issue. If there is no image void, either you have a primary charge loss or a laser failure ... or (unlikely) both.

Is the page just K: black or CMYK: composite black? If you're getting CMYK edge to edge, most likely the HVT is shutting down. If it's only K: black I would suspect the K primary charge unit or drum unit.

And yes, all these conditions can be intermittent. =^..^=

[Samanator]

Re: 3551ci: Solid Black page

I just had this kind of problem on a 4551ci with 923K on the total counter. This was maddening because I went out there and they had some sample black copies (did it when it copied or printed). However I could not get the machine to make black copies for me. I went back the next day for the same thing and again the customer had samples (and words) but the machine still would not do it for me.

Intermittent problems are the worst.

To cover my ass with this customer (and my boss), I called Kyocera support mostly to get a case number. The guy I talked to did suggest I start by looking at the optics and the CCD before I went to see if it was an engine problem.

What I did was unplug the machine then pull out all the developer and drums and the transfer belt unit and that forced me to take off the right side door. I cleaned (vacuumed) all these units paying close attention to all contact points. Many times the transfer belt and the right side door never get a real good cleaning. I put a hard vac on the inner cavity putting brush and vac on all contact points. There is a PCB that the drums and developer units plug into. I put the brush and vac to that as well. That PCB always seems to get toner on it and I don't think that does anything any good. It also doesn't help that this customer buys their own toner and its never OEM. I also cleaned all the charger rollers. I did a deep clean on the optics and re-seated the plugs on the CCD when I gave the lens a wipe.

I put it all back together and fired it up and it worked.

This happened last Wednesday and had there been a problem we would have heard right away as this machine is not under service agreement.

So maybe a deep clean on an old machine may be in order.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: 3551ci: Solid Black page

The thing to pay attention to is whether there was an image void on the all black page. If there is an image void, the laser is functioning, and you have an image processing issue. If there is no image void, either you have a primary charge loss or a laser failure ... or (unlikely) both.

Is the page just K: black or CMYK: composite black? If you're getting CMYK edge to edge, most likely the HVT is shutting down. If it's only K: black I would suspect the K primary charge unit or drum unit.

And yes, all these conditions can be intermittent. =^..^=

You talking about the image void around the entire page? Yes, it was there. Not sure if the image was black or composite black. What's the best way to tell the difference between the two blacks? The black pages looked less dark than true black.


I get the theory behind what you're saying though. Good stuff. AS ALWAYS. I'll post any updates when I can.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: 3551ci: Solid Black page

I just had this kind of problem on a 4551ci with 923K on the total counter. This was maddening because I went out there and they had some sample black copies (did it when it copied or printed). However I could not get the machine to make black copies for me. I went back the next day for the same thing and again the customer had samples (and words) but the machine still would not do it for me.

Intermittent problems are the worst.

To cover my ass with this customer (and my boss), I called Kyocera support mostly to get a case number. The guy I talked to did suggest I start by looking at the optics and the CCD before I went to see if it was an engine problem.

What I did was unplug the machine then pull out all the developer and drums and the transfer belt unit and that forced me to take off the right side door. I cleaned (vacuumed) all these units paying close attention to all contact points. Many times the transfer belt and the right side door never get a real good cleaning. I put a hard vac on the inner cavity putting brush and vac on all contact points. There is a PCB that the drums and developer units plug into. I put the brush and vac to that as well. That PCB always seems to get toner on it and I don't think that does anything any good. It also doesn't help that this customer buys their own toner and its never OEM. I also cleaned all the charger rollers. I did a deep clean on the optics and re-seated the plugs on the CCD when I gave the lens a wipe.

I put it all back together and fired it up and it worked.

This happened last Wednesday and had there been a problem we would have heard right away as this machine is not under service agreement.

So maybe a deep clean on an old machine may be in order.

Interesting. I'll be sure to hit all the hotspots. Thank you.

[bsm2]

Re: 3551ci: Solid Black page

How's the power ? Anything else on the same line ? Surge suppressor? Hows the maintenance on this? Anything close to be replaced?

Now that your a authorized Kyocera dealer thank GOD and have tech support and access to training suggest you open a ticket.

[copiertec]

Re: 3551ci: Solid Black page

We have some lightly used color drums/developers/ fuser unit/ transfer unit that was pulled from a working 3051ci, I believe they all have under 20k on them. If you need any of them make me an offer and we can ship them out to you.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: 3551ci: Solid Black page

We have some lightly used color drums/developers/ fuser unit/ transfer unit that was pulled from a working 3051ci, I believe they all have under 20k on them. If you need any of them make me an offer and we can ship them out to you.

Thanks for the offer. A while back I bought several low meter machines (very cheap) just for parts and supplies. .



So, I returned to the customers office this morning. The black drum and DV had about 500k. Ditto for the transfer belt. I replaced those and all of the PCR's. I cleaned/examined all the HV contacts.

This will be a waiting game as it's an intermittent problem. I feel pretty good about it. We'll see.


I want to thank everyone that gave advice in this thread. It's always appreciated greatly.

[blackcat4866]

Re: 3551ci: Solid Black page

You talking about the image void around the entire page? Yes, it was there. Not sure if the image was black or composite black. What's the best way to tell the difference between the two blacks? The black pages looked less dark than true black.

K: black (like on a monochrome print or copy) is always slightly less dark as CMYK, composite or "rich black".

Printers will often introduce varying amounts of cyan and magenta to produce a richer, darker black.
Take a look at pg 8 of the ANSI A 11% color test pattern, which shows various rich blacks, compared to K black & composite black.
=^..^=

[Samanator]

Re: 3551ci: Solid Black page

This morning we got a call from the customer with the 4551ci. The problem came back. It goes away after a reboot, but comes back.

The machine has near a million on it. They now wish to upgrade.

Fine by me.

Still it has something to do with the CCD or black dev unit.

Aftermarket toner doesn't help.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: 3551ci: Solid Black page

K: black (like on a monochrome print or copy) is always slightly less dark as CMYK, composite or "rich black".

Printers will often introduce varying amounts of cyan and magenta to produce a richer, darker black.
Take a look at pg 8 of the ANSI A 11% color test pattern, which shows various rich blacks, compared to K black & composite black.
=^..^=

I looked at page 8. Very interesting. The pages that I pulled out of the trash can are a spot-on match with composite black - cyan 100%, magenta 100%, yellow 100% and K 0%.


So that' means most likely the HVT is shutting down, correct?

[tsbservice]

Re: 3551ci: Solid Black page

Thanks for the offer. A while back I bought several low meter machines (very cheap) just for parts and supplies. .



So, I returned to the customers office this morning. The black drum and DV had about 500k. Ditto for the transfer belt. I replaced those and all of the PCR's. I cleaned/examined all the HV contacts.

This will be a waiting game as it's an intermittent problem. I feel pretty good about it. We'll see.


I want to thank everyone that gave advice in this thread. It's always appreciated greatly.

I'm thinking replacing K drum unit would solve it.

[blackcat4866]

Re: 3551ci: Solid Black page

I looked at page 8. Very interesting. The pages that I pulled out of the trash can are a spot-on match with composite black - cyan 100%, magenta 100%, yellow 100% and K 0%.


So that' means most likely the HVT is shutting down, correct?

Yes, the HVT is definitely shutting down. BUT, why is it shutting down? Is one of the charge rollers arcing to make the HVT shut down? Is it the HVT failure?

Your best odds of solving this in a single visit is to replace the (4) charge rollers and the HVT. =^..^=