[CQ] wide format fw740 analog

[acsolutions]

Hello, I'm working on a analog fw740 with a cq problem. Customer complained of back grounding so went up with a drum blade. When I got their I noticed that the drum was coated with toner, so I replaced the drum blade, I also noticed that the trans/sep was filled with toner I figured it might be a recovery blade issue as well. once I replaced the drum blade and reassembled the machine and ran a copy the drum had that film of toner. I checked the drum ground and the dev. bias all OK. I also disconnected the charge corona voltage so no charge on drum then ran a copy and the drum is still not cleaning and also checked the discharge lamps, OK. I don't work on these much but I never saw this! this is an analog copier so I'm just checking all the basics. The only other thing I can think of is bad toner. the customer said that as soon as they added toner this problem occurred, I don't know if possibly the customer added the wrong toner or we sent them bad toner! I was thinking of trying out a used drum and if the problem is still present I thought of doing a developer change. Developer is a bit pricy so I want to be careful in my diagnosis. If anyone has any suggestion please feel free. thanks

[blackcat4866]

Re: wide format fw740 analog

Personally I'm leaning toward overtoning. There was a firmware update to address this:

Replace the ROM. On A163: version 'B', on A251: version 'D', on A252: version 'D'. Replace developer. And if you have any doubts about the origins of the toner vacuum out the hopper and install known good OEM toner. =^..^=

[acsolutions]

Re: wide format fw740 analog

Personally I'm leaning toward overtoning. There was a firmware update to address this:

Replace the ROM. On A163: version 'B', on A251: version 'D', on A252: version 'D'. Replace developer. And if you have any doubts about the origins of the toner vacuum out the hopper and install known good OEM toner. =^..^=

Thanks or the reply, This is a 15 year old wide format analog machine, I don't know if it has any rom replacements and there is no toner hopper, there is a tube of toner that is installed on top of dev. assembly and dumps into the developer. I was just thinking about what you said about overtoning, I think there is a ID sensor that sense toner density on the drum, but if there is no charge on the drum when I remove charge voltage the drum should clean and it should not pull toner. Tell me what you think. Thanks

[totoro]

Re: wide format fw740 analog

The rom replacement is actually a software upgrade. It is only for machines prior to serial # A7829020131. If your serial number is after this then you already have the upgraded software. If not then go to the TSRC site and get it. Replacing the developer is part of this procedure so I would do that no matter what.

[acsolutions]

Re: wide format fw740 analog

Sorry, I didn't think it would be a software issue the machine is actually a K+E 4039 which I believe is the same but not sure of the software. Sorry about that I'll get my story right next time. Thanks

[JustManuals]

Re: wide format fw740 analog

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[blackcat4866]

Re: wide format fw740 analog

If it's overtoning as badly as I think it is, pulling the primary will not stop it from blowing toner. With the toner arrangement it's very easy for a creative individual to pry open one of their samsung printer cartridges and pour some of the black stuff right in the slot. It's all black, right? What difference does it make if its Ricoh or Samsung?

I came across a similar scenario with a Canon NP-2120 and Sanyo printer toner. The Sanyo developing process is digital so the polarity is opposite to the toner for the Canon. So when this wrong toner is installed there is only one place where it does not want to be: in that developing unit. I got totally negative copies. The day before I had just got done vacuuming HP toner out of the developing unit, and telling them to order the correct type of toner. It was at a college fraternity house. I guess they didn't learn anything during that 24 hours/$200.00.

=^..^=

[acsolutions]

Re: wide format fw740 analog

Thanks, it's over toning badly! yes, I totally get your point, that was my assumption exactly if they ran out of toner they could have added the wrong polarity of toner and if there is no charge it will pull right to the drum! once again it's not a Ricoh it's a K+E 4039

[jdzr]

Re: wide format fw740 analog

That machine has no ID sensor or any other way to check the toner/drum condition, it simply monitors the toner to developer(monitor in service mode) ratio within the developer. The charge on the drum is neutralized by the printing lamp so if it was not coming on you would have this condition. You can check the cleaning blade by removing the drum unit and turning it by hand and all of the toner should be removed from the drum if the blade is working correctly. It would be very hard to have the wrong toner in the machine unless it was done by the manufacturer. As you noted the toner is in a long tube. The toner tube is available in 3 different tubes but all have a different drive mechanism. These machines do have a problem with the developer mix crashing and causing the machine to continuously call for more toner. Condition would be the waste fills up VERY quickly and the waste tube and auger will plug with toner.

[acsolutions]

Re: wide format fw740 analog

That machine has no ID sensor or any other way to check the toner/drum condition, it simply monitors the toner to developer(monitor in service mode) ratio within the developer. The charge on the drum is neutralized by the printing lamp so if it was not coming on you would have this condition. You can check the cleaning blade by removing the drum unit and turning it by hand and all of the toner should be removed from the drum if the blade is working correctly. It would be very hard to have the wrong toner in the machine unless it was done by the manufacturer. As you noted the toner is in a long tube. The toner tube is available in 3 different tubes but all have a different drive mechanism. These machines do have a problem with the developer mix crashing and causing the machine to continuously call for more toner. Condition would be the waste fills up VERY quickly and the waste tube and auger will plug with toner.

Thanks for the reply, I had mentioned that I had replaced the drum blade which cleans fine and checked the erase lamps that also work. After replacing the the drum blade and vacuumed out the cleaning case assembly and fired it up and ran copies I saw the same problems and yes the used toner container if full and the drum is fully coated with toner.

I think the problem is the toner! I found out that we sent the customer aftermarket toner, I thought it was OEM toner. I also found out I have a call back on another machine with a similar problem that I recently did a Dev. change on! Yes, I did initialize the dev. after replacing it. we just sent him toner from the same distributor, and yes its the same toner for a similar machine.

I thought there was only 2 types of tubes. the only difference is the impellers that drive it?

The customer I did a dev. change on a few weeks ago ran out of toner and we just sent him one, as soon as he put the toner in the machine the problem started. I was going to get some OEM toner and ask the customer to run whats in the machine out without the tube in the machine and when the machine asks for toner then add the OEM toner to see if the problem is corrected. If it is the same problem I will have to go back to clean the machine, it sucks because the customer is an hour and a half away.

[Lagonda]

Re: wide format fw740 analog

On a 15 year old analoge machine I'd be worried about the health of the seals either side of the toner delivery roller. I would expect the've turned into chewing gum by now and toner is leaking past.

[acsolutions]

Re: wide format fw740 analog

On a 15 year old analoge machine I'd be worried about the health of the seals either side of the toner delivery roller. I would expect the've turned into chewing gum by now and toner is leaking past.

That would cause the drum to be completely covered with toner even without a charge on the drum?

[Lagonda]

Re: wide format fw740 analog

Shouldn't 'cos its analog, you've got to stop thinking digital, toner wont stick to the drum until its charged up by the corona. But when it charged a lot of toner sticks to it because theres too much free toner floating around in the dev.

[acsolutions]

Re: wide format fw740 analog

Shouldn't 'cos its analog, you've got to stop thinking digital, toner wont stick to the drum until its charged up by the corona. But when it charged a lot of toner sticks to it because theres too much free toner floating around in the dev.

what if the toner is opposite polarity? and why is there so much toner on a none charged drum, I open up the clam shell and you can see thick toner visable? and why is the used toner full after about 20 copies?

[jdzr]

Re: wide format fw740 analog

In reading your last description of your problem it does sound like a toner problem. You are correct there are only two(2) types of analog toner and two different impellers,with the actual toner in the tube the exact same type but the digital Ricoh machine uses a tube that is exactly the same size but a different impeller system to drive it with. The manufacturer could have put digital toner into the analog tubes???? I have used after market toner in the wide formats for many years and have never run into this type of problem but anything is possible. If you have digital toner in an analog machine the toner will not hold to the developer due to the opposite charges. Before you let the customer run the toner out of the machine make sure you are not expelling developer mix onto the drum, you could ruin a drum also.
The K&E toner is hard to get aftermarket and I only know of one supplier and they should stand behind their product. I am not going to give their name until you know for sure as I do not want to give them a bad rep. if you need it contact me direct jrd45@earthlink.net You can also convert your machines to Ricoh toner simply by changing the impeller.
Good Luck