E-8508/18A problems with C471

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  • Rusty.Harris
    Senior Tech

    Site Contributor
    500+ Posts
    • Jan 2021
    • 569

    E-8508/18A problems with C471

    This is kind of a rant, but anyway...

    If you work on these two models, the 8508A or the 8518A, you know the issues with C471 errors, belts ripping in two.
    Personally, when this started about November of 2018, I said they should just go back to using the fuser in the 5540-6570.
    It's a POS in these machines. Too fragile. Mod after mod...still does it. The issue, is the oil isn't enough to keep it from
    drying out the wick, and once dry, you get too much friction on the fuser belt, which rips it in two.
    Then, with the friction, the outer sleeve of the fuser belt holder, gets scratched in an vertical direction. Since this uses an
    inductive heat, to heat the fuser, it's creating a hot spot in the areas of the vertical scratches. Then, the Brainiac that put the
    thermal fuse on one end of the fuser, and the thermistors in the middle and opposite end. I've tried countless ways to combat
    the problem and lowering the fuser on the 08/18's was about the best thing you could do, then TABS comes out with a bunch
    of 08 changes that do what? Lower the fuser temperature on the 08/18's. Then, I talked with one of the guys and he said it
    was because the temperature open point of the fuse is close to the operating temperature of the machine. Well, then make
    the fuse a bit higher temperature. At one point, in early 2020, I went through 30 fuses in less than 30 days!
    Now, the geniuses say that the issue isn't with the fusers that come with the machines, they are lasting their rated life, but,
    after they are rebuilt. NOW they say that you shouldn't rebuilt the core/belt holder, but, replace the entire belt holder because
    it is just too fragile. Ok, you made a part, for a high temperature, high productivity machine, but made it too fragile? Seriously?
    And to make it even worse, if you look at the parts manual, the ONLY part of that belt holder/core that is NOT available as a
    replacement part is....wait for it...the outer core shell! If you try to scrub the goop off the belt holder in servicing it, it has a
    gray goop, which is funny...it's the same color as the inside of the upper fuser belt. Maybe their oil is causing the material on
    the inside of the belt to deteriorate? And, the oil? Less than a thimble full of oil is included with the fuser kit. Oh, you can
    order more...at 30 dollars per thimble full! (I found an alternative source, thanks anyway TABS).
    I've worked on TABS machines for over 30 years, and I should know better. When I went to the first school on the 8508A series,
    I said this is great! They took a 5560/70, took out the color and made it a black & white...we'll never have issues with these!
    Oh...Murphy's law...STRUCK again. The only thing they really changed was the fuser, and it's the headache we've had since release!

    Rant over...

    Capture.JPG
  • Bicyclerepairman
    Technician

    50+ Posts
    • Jan 2014
    • 63

    #2
    Re: E-8508/18A problems with C471

    Point well made Rusty...although 5560 fuser units are not without their issues!

    Comment

    • Rusty.Harris
      Senior Tech

      Site Contributor
      500+ Posts
      • Jan 2021
      • 569

      #3
      Re: E-8508/18A problems with C471

      Originally posted by Bicyclerepairman
      Point well made Rusty...although 5560 fuser units are not without their issues!
      Yeah, but I'd get close to a million copies out of some of them. Hell, the 8508/8518's we're lucky to get the expected life.
      Before Toshiba took their old bulletin board, couple guys mentioned using a different kind of oil they were using and having
      pretty good luck. Got it from a distributor in Ohio. The company sent me a free 100ml can of the stuff, so I'm doubling up
      on the amount I put in the fusers and just keeping the TINY amount of oil that comes with it on the shelf.
      Plus, we had a TON of these in schools and they always want the energy save turned off. So I set up a policy, that after
      four hours, they go into deep sleep mode. Hopefully the oil won't all burn up and destroy the belts.

      Comment

      • tsbservice
        Field tech

        Site Contributor
        5,000+ Posts
        • May 2007
        • 7635

        #4
        Re: E-8508/18A problems with C471

        Originally posted by Rusty.Harris
        Yeah, but I'd get close to a million copies out of some of them. Hell, the 8508/8518's we're lucky to get the expected life.
        Before Toshiba took their old bulletin board, couple guys mentioned using a different kind of oil they were using and having
        pretty good luck. Got it from a distributor in Ohio. The company sent me a free 100ml can of the stuff, so I'm doubling up
        on the amount I put in the fusers and just keeping the TINY amount of oil that comes with it on the shelf.
        Plus, we had a TON of these in schools and they always want the energy save turned off. So I set up a policy, that after
        four hours, they go into deep sleep mode. Hopefully the oil won't all burn up and destroy the belts.
        4 hours seems a bit much. Can't you lower fuser temperature while machine is in an idle mode waiting for a jobs?
        A tree is known by its fruit, a man by his deeds. A good deed is never lost, he who sows courtesy, reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love.
        Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.

        Comment

        • Bicyclerepairman
          Technician

          50+ Posts
          • Jan 2014
          • 63

          #5
          Re: E-8508/18A problems with C471

          Different viscosity or temp rating?

          Comment

          • blackcat4866
            Master Of The Obvious

            Site Contributor
            10,000+ Posts
            • Jul 2007
            • 22702

            #6
            Re: E-8508/18A problems with C471

            These settings have cured the C471's on two machines for sure:

            1) New holder.
            2) I tested the fuser unit exhaust fan in 03-462, 461. Tests OK in low and high speed.
            3) I lowered the temperature at which the fans start/stop running: 08-2386 4>2 (to provide additional cooling).
            4) I lowered the fuser temperature at the center thermistor by 5 degrees: Normal 08-2010-0 14>13, Low 08-2010-2 14>13, Decelerating 08-2010-10 12>11

            =^..^=
            If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
            1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
            2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
            3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
            4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
            5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

            blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

            Comment

            • SalesServiceGuy
              Field Supervisor

              Site Contributor
              5,000+ Posts
              • Dec 2009
              • 7879

              #7
              Re: E-8508/18A problems with C471

              I am not tech smart enough to comment on the technical details presented here but I sure like selling these models.

              I have sold more than a few and none have come back to bite me yet. I have none in schools.

              I appreciate the heads up on the rant so that I can be more proactive with my service techs.

              One thing is for sure, there is no way Toshiba is going back to the older fusers.

              One inside tidbit, expect new similar models one year from now.
              Last edited by SalesServiceGuy; 02-25-2021, 02:57 AM.

              Comment

              • SalesServiceGuy
                Field Supervisor

                Site Contributor
                5,000+ Posts
                • Dec 2009
                • 7879

                #8
                Re: E-8508/18A problems with C471

                Originally posted by Rusty.Harris
                Yeah, but I'd get close to a million copies out of some of them. Hell, the 8508/8518's we're lucky to get the expected life.
                Before Toshiba took their old bulletin board, couple guys mentioned using a different kind of oil they were using and having
                pretty good luck. Got it from a distributor in Ohio. The company sent me a free 100ml can of the stuff, so I'm doubling up
                on the amount I put in the fusers and just keeping the TINY amount of oil that comes with it on the shelf.
                Plus, we had a TON of these in schools and they always want the energy save turned off. So I set up a policy, that after
                four hours, they go into deep sleep mode. Hopefully the oil won't all burn up and destroy the belts.
                When you say you set up a policy on school copiers are you referring to eCloud Connect or are you making changes on the LCD panel?

                To state the obvious, if the fuser is at full power, high heat all of the time, this will prematurely wear out the fuser correct?

                When you say schools always want the Energy Save feature turned off it is because the teachers are pressed for time and do not want to wait for the copier to warm up during the day regardless off the extra electricity costs. Some teachers who are keeners work after hours as well.

                Looking at Toshiba Tec Top View, it does not look like you can buy a spare fuser complete as a hot swap.

                I see the factory spec on the fuser belt ranges from 520k to 720k on a e5518A to a e8518A.
                Last edited by SalesServiceGuy; 02-25-2021, 03:00 AM.

                Comment

                • Rusty.Harris
                  Senior Tech

                  Site Contributor
                  500+ Posts
                  • Jan 2021
                  • 569

                  #9
                  Re: E-8508/18A problems with C471

                  Yes, I set up the policy that the super sleep will kick in at 240 minutes via an 08 code. The most an admin can do is 60 minutes.
                  Most of the fusers we had rip apart, were in July/August of last year after the schools here were shut down from around March
                  through July/August. Sitting that long, some on, some off, the oil evaporated and the friction just ripped them up.
                  The changed Toshiba made to the fuser temperatures via a USB firmware update seem to have calmed down a lot of the C471
                  thermal fuse pop problems. Now it's mostly the oil leaking or evaporating out and destroying the belt.
                  It's why I'm using a different oil on the fusers, instead of that tiny thimble amount that comes with the kits. If you are familiar
                  with that tiny bottle of oil, the oil I'm using now, I'm doubling the amount, then marking the fusers so when they come back
                  in I can see how the added & different oil holds up.



                  Originally posted by SalesServiceGuy
                  When you say you set up a policy on school copiers are you referring to eCloud Connect or are you making changes on the LCD panel?

                  To state the obvious, if the fuser is at full power, high heat all of the time, this will prematurely wear out the fuser correct?

                  When you say schools always want the Energy Save feature turned off it is because the teachers are pressed for time and do not want to wait for the copier to warm up during the day regardless off the extra electricity costs. Some teachers who are keeners work after hours as well.

                  Looking at Toshiba Tec Top View, it does not look like you can buy a spare fuser complete as a hot swap.

                  I see the factory spec on the fuser belt ranges from 520k to 720k on a e5518A to a e8518A.

                  Comment

                  • SalesServiceGuy
                    Field Supervisor

                    Site Contributor
                    5,000+ Posts
                    • Dec 2009
                    • 7879

                    #10
                    Re: E-8508/18A problems with C471

                    Originally posted by Rusty.Harris
                    Yes, I set up the policy that the super sleep will kick in at 240 minutes via an 08 code. The most an admin can do is 60 minutes.
                    Most of the fusers we had rip apart, were in July/August of last year after the schools here were shut down from around March
                    through July/August. Sitting that long, some on, some off, the oil evaporated and the friction just ripped them up.
                    The changed Toshiba made to the fuser temperatures via a USB firmware update seem to have calmed down a lot of the C471
                    thermal fuse pop problems. Now it's mostly the oil leaking or evaporating out and destroying the belt.
                    It's why I'm using a different oil on the fusers, instead of that tiny thimble amount that comes with the kits. If you are familiar
                    with that tiny bottle of oil, the oil I'm using now, I'm doubling the amount, then marking the fusers so when they come back
                    in I can see how the added & different oil holds up.
                    Thanks for the detail. Does the same fuser oil problem exist for the e7516AC series?
                    Last edited by SalesServiceGuy; 02-25-2021, 05:34 PM. Reason: Clarity

                    Comment

                    • Rusty.Harris
                      Senior Tech

                      Site Contributor
                      500+ Posts
                      • Jan 2021
                      • 569

                      #11
                      Re: E-8508/18A problems with C471

                      Originally posted by SalesServiceGuy
                      Thanks for the detail. Does the same fuser oil problem exist for the e7516AC series?

                      Yes. Even the 5508/18 series has issues with the oil "drying up". Some, I find the end felt pads soaked with oil, meaning
                      either the machine isn't level, or the tech is moving the fuser not level. I think the viscosity of the oil at room temp is ok,
                      but when it hits operating temp it is more like water, plus it evaporates. The oil I'm using now, from Shin-Etsu (company
                      out of Akron OH) sent me a sample of 100ml which is enough for thousands of fusers LOL.
                      I just started using it about a week ago, so we'll see when they come back, how well they hold up, versus the stock oil.
                      At 30+ dollar for that tiny amount, I should go into business selling what I have stocked up LOL.

                      Comment

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