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  1. #11
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    monocomponent toner or separate better

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    On Sharp, and on the color Kyocera machines you can run a simulation to agitate the developer and give current toner density readings.

    For Sharp it's sim U25-01 (typically around "100")
    For Kyocera it's sim U131, Automatic (difference of less than 25 points between reference and actual)
    I'm sure Ricoh has their own counterpart, it's just been too many years.

    Visually if you remove the developer unit and rotate it manually, overtoned developer cannot hold all the toner available, so you'll see a cloud of loose toner wafting off the developing roller while agitating. Undertoned developer will either leave you gritty copies, piles of developer beneath the mag roller, or bare spots in the developer brush.

    Count is a very good, reliable reference. Perhaps the most reliable.
    Just looking at image quality? You can see the same effects from developer, drum, primary, other things ... =^..^=
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
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    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

  2. #12
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts
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    I was speaking more generally on any machine with separate toner and developer.

    When you make the adjustments you talk about does it go through developer faster?

    Quote Originally Posted by wazza View Post
    Are you talking about Sharps in particular with this question?

    If so, there are numerous ways of adjusting the machine to get more out of the consumable drum/dev life. Most of these are done through sim 44. Also forcing halftone correction & process control will bring the quality back up. If that is still not quite good enough, a color calibration procedure usually does the trick. Almost all of the time, you can bring the machine up to spec without having to replace dev, with these adjustments and as long as the counters for each are OK.

  3. #13
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts
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    That's interesting b/c on the Canon mag roller post that you responded too, on that mag roller if I turned it the wrong way there was a bunch of dev/toner on the roller, but if I turned it the right way then the blade was obviously smoothing it out.

    I've played with the charge numbers and developer numbers and toner density at times to try and get better blacks. You know how sometimes there are positive number settings and sometimes negative ones. I couldn't exactly tell you what those mean but I can make them work. I know I've missed a lot of things from not having worked under a lot of seasoned people. For the most part, I've done a lot of theory classes and mostly self taught things but have had some factory training. What I'm saying is there's many things left to learn b/c I didn't get years to work under a seasoned technician and bug him/her with the hundreds of questions that I could come up with.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackcat4866 View Post
    On Sharp, and on the color Kyocera machines you can run a simulation to agitate the developer and give current toner density readings.

    For Sharp it's sim U25-01 (typically around "100")
    For Kyocera it's sim U131, Automatic (difference of less than 25 points between reference and actual)
    I'm sure Ricoh has their own counterpart, it's just been too many years.

    Visually if you remove the developer unit and rotate it manually, overtoned developer cannot hold all the toner available, so you'll see a cloud of loose toner wafting off the developing roller while agitating. Undertoned developer will either leave you gritty copies, piles of developer beneath the mag roller, or bare spots in the developer brush.

    Count is a very good, reliable reference. Perhaps the most reliable.
    Just looking at image quality? You can see the same effects from developer, drum, primary, other things ... =^..^=

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingpd@businessprints.net View Post
    I was speaking more generally on any machine with separate toner and developer.

    When you make the adjustments you talk about does it go through developer faster?
    Well, I can only speak on the Sharp machines & specs, as I have spent 14 years of my 15 years in this game on Sharp.
    Does the developer get used faster by changing the frequency of process control or manual charge settings? No.
    The MX color developers are by far the best devs I have ever seen. On most machines, you can get away with replacing the drum unit, reset that particular color dev at the same time, run a forced process control and/or calibration, and the overall quality is as good as if you had changed the dev. You can usually get away with 2, sometimes 3 dev lifes over the specification life. I have many machines running adjusted process control frequencies from standard setting and there is no difference in how long the dev lasts for.

    I'll always be a big fan of the separate toner/dev system. I cant speak of other manufacturer specs or general life of developer, but in theory you should be able to get more life out of the dev than specified. If the machine is correctly calibrated, and has drum units replaced at the correct intervals, the devs are usually not messy and the machine is generally clean internally.

    Just dont vac a dev unit on a toner/dev separate system. The chances of blowing the dev unit toner density sensor is quite high. Once this goes, the machine will dev adjust OK, but within a few days goes so overtoned its a nightmare.

  5. #15
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts Jimbo1's Avatar
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    I started working on Kyocera machines aboout 3 years ago after working on Ricoh/Lanier/Toshiba for many years before. I don't intend to go back to the toner dusting pigs.

    Oh also Sharp for a very short time.
    "Some days you get the bear, some days the bear gets you."

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  6. #16
    All things Konica Minolta 1,000+ Posts Stirton.M's Avatar
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    Since I only know KM, very little of the other brands, I am a fan of the colour units. Relatively far easier to clean than many of the older generation monochromes, ep series especially, some DI series....and I hear even some of the bizhubs are all dusty inside. Takes me 5 minutes with a tac rag to clean a colour machine, inside and out. Takes 15 minutes or longer to deal with a monochrome. Not sure why the monochromes are so dirty relative, should be little difference I would think. But then, some of the colour units I first worked on were not so great when it came to fusing oil.....that shit gets EVERYWHERE if yer not careful.
    "Many years ago I chased a woman for almost two years, only to discover that her tastes were exactly like mine: we both were crazy about girls."
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    Please do not PM me for questions related to Konica Minolta hardware.
    I will not answer requests or questions there.
    Please ask in the KM forum for the benefit of others to see the question and give their input.

  7. #17
    The Wolf 1,000+ Posts mojorolla's Avatar
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    I also prefer the toner/developer system. They seem to run a bit dirtier, but overall, service costs are usually cheaper. We took on Sharp a little over a year ago, and they run MUCH cleaner than the Panasonic machines. They fun part starts when the company wants to use third party toner. The stuff we use for the Panasonic eats developer and messes up the OPC's sometimes.

  8. #18
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    Oce was using mono component toners forever, true w/color and b/w. Yes, the b/w image could use some darkening up but from the standpoint of service its one less thing to get involved with. There is no toner waste either with the Oce non commercial printers to distinguish between the divisions.

    Im sick of Ricoh needing developers every 150 on the color 45 cpm m/c's. Their toner is an ungodly mixture too. They play around with the plastics and agents to the point they create numerous problems w/ the m/c's and with customers alike. Seems like every mid volume b/w I go to there is an issue with backgrounding and charge adjustments. Ricoh/Savin/lanier creates and then dismisses so many problems with this overly burdensome engineering that has few if any merits. It flows down hill to the dealers who have to replace charge roll assy (color mid vol) like underwear. Since they departed from the tried and true corona system its been a nightmare.

    Glad to hear about Canon as Im movin on.

  9. #19
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts
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    How does Oce' manage no waste toner?

  10. #20
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts
    monocomponent toner or separate better


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    Don't know about Oce, but old Mita's would recycle toner. The drum blade would drop unused toner onto an auger spring that would move it back into the toner hopper.

    I'm a newer tech, only seen a few. I can't imagine it was a good idea.

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